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Pathfinder Adventure Card Game: Rise of the Runelords – Base Set» Forums » General

Subject: not so subtle sexism rss

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Orlando Neto
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j_king wrote:
There are characters out there in story-land who use sex as a currency for power and will take advantage of people to get it (good luck explaining that to a thirteen year old; maybe they should raise the age they market to a little?)

Do you belive the thirteens are so naive nowadays? You must go the schools and prevent them to teach about the world history. Sex, murder and all that stuff, I learned it from school when I was thirteen.


Old rpg art is like this one. I played Vampire when I was 12 and D&D when 8 and I can distinguish fantasy females from real women. (I'm not very good with then in RPGdevil)
 
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Liam
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Yup removing the card sounds like a reasonable solution.

Quote:
No context, no explanation, just a sultry-looking woman and a wisdom check to "defeat," her nefarious plot to bar my path to success. I still think Paizo should reconsider its inclusion (perhaps at the very least in its current form)

Solidly demonstrated - I'm surprised folks are giving you such a hard time. It does sounds like an extra line of context wouldn't have gone a miss but I do like that Paizo took a risk and opted to include it and hope that they still try to put as much RPG elements into the game as possible.
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Erik Racer
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While I don't have an issue with the card, I could see why some would. I did do a "whoa" when I was sorting out the cards as it is the one card that really stood out from all of the others. Also, I thought DanKD's stable boy card comment was great.

I will have to defend the OP in that, just because he enjoys other things that include such content, doesn't mean he does so with his family or friends. I loved the Song of Fire and Ice series, but there is no way I'm going to read them to my kids or watch the Game of Thrones show based on it with my kids. If he wants to create an inclusive environment for gaming, then this card could be jarring. With that said, he could have registered his disappointment a little less confrontationally.
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David Ainsworth
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The OP has a point, and it's not just sexist it's also full of false worship. So please, along with the sexy maid, also remove from the game the entire Blessings deck. Real deities (and by deities I mean just God) are nothing like these deities in the game and I am offended that they should even be there.
 
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James King
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eracer68 wrote:
While I don't have an issue with the card, I could see why some would. I did do a "whoa" when I was sorting out the cards as it is the one card that really stood out from all of the others. Also, I thought DanKD's stable boy card comment was great.

I will have to defend the OP in that, just because he enjoys other things that include such content, doesn't mean he does so with his family or friends. I loved the Song of Fire and Ice series, but there is no way I'm going to read them to my kids or watch the Game of Thrones show based on it with my kids. If he wants to create an inclusive environment for gaming, then this card could be jarring. With that said, he could have registered his disappointment a little less confrontationally.

I certainly should have known better. The responses received so far are pretty typical and I was expecting them. I just got away from myself after seeing the same trope for the 1001st time.
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Mariano Rico
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Gosh, could someone post a pic of the darned card for those of us who dont have the game?

So we know what the heck is all this rant about.

I never took this game for a kids friendly one though. Dont get anywhere near the comics if you feel this bad about that encounter.

Wonder how no one tried to censor Seoni up to this point.
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Erik Racer
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Mariano Rico
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Thanks Erik.

Would it have hurt some feelings if they had called the card Vanessa the Vampire?

Think about it.
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K Scally
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Since over half the Heroes are female, does this make it better or worse?
 
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Bradford Lounsberry
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Her name is Shayliss Vinder. Shayliss and her sister Katrine are pretty well known in Sandpoint for their loose morals. I know that is the store I'd be visiting next time I'm in Sandpoint.
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Erik Racer
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ralsar wrote:
Her name is Shayliss Vinder. Shayliss and her sister Katrine are pretty well known in Sandpoint for their loose morals. I know that is the store I'd be visiting next time I'm in Sandpoint.
Just look out for sand crabs.
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James King
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My feelings aren't hurt by this card. I'm not merely "offended." I think this card is perpetuating sexist stereotypes. There is nothing offensive about a story involving a woman seducing someone for her own selfish reasons, lack of good judgement, or whatever the story entails. I, like many human beings, am very interested in anything related to sex. However that's not what this card is.

There's no story to this card. It's just a woman with a seductive appearance who must be defeated. She's just an object and clearly has no reason to be in the set other than perpetuating a trope. There's no reason why she exists, no story she's involved in. She's just a sexy obstacle (and one that clearly caters to a specific fantasy).

It could be remedied if the card was given some flavor and the game wa prepared to explore such themes. However knowing nothing about the RPG supplement from which this game comes from doesn't help me to understand what this game is getting at by including this card. I've got standard goblins and villains and suddenly I have to treat a woman like a locked door? The triviality of it is what makes it what it is. The story of the game so far doesn't indicate to me that it's dealing with these themes in any way (much less in a mature manner).

That being said, I really like this game and will just play it without the card. It's such a trivial card that it won't change a thing mechanically or narratively of course. So why does Paizo have to include it?
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Bradford Lounsberry
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j_king wrote:
That being said, I really like this game and will just play it without the card. It's such a trivial card that it won't change a thing mechanically or narratively of course. So why does Paizo have to include it?

Because she is part of the Runelord's storyline. Why should they exclude her because some people, like you, aren't familar with the source material?

If I had never seen Return of the Jedi, I wouldn't throw a fit over Princess Lei's gold bikini in the Star Wars card game.
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James King
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ralsar wrote:
j_king wrote:
That being said, I really like this game and will just play it without the card. It's such a trivial card that it won't change a thing mechanically or narratively of course. So why does Paizo have to include it?

Because she is part of the Runelord's storyline. Why should they exclude her because some people, like you, aren't familar with the source material?

If I had never seen Return of the Jedi, I wouldn't throw a fit over Princess Lei's gold bikini in the Star Wars card game.
l

Clearly she plays an integral part. No flavor text and no mechanics or interactions with any other part of the game. I can see why removing this card from the game would signicantly affect the fun factor and narrative flow. I see that now. snore
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Zoltán Mészáros
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re:sexism
Yes, absolutely !

And I think we should also remove Merisiel from the game, as she pictures women as backstabbing thieves !

And remove all animal allies, as exploiting animals for selfish reasons is really bad !

Remove acid arrow from the game, as killing anoher human being (like a Bandit Henchman) is too gruesome for this kind of game !

Oh, come on. The OP is just a troll, or so perverted that he really can't think about anything but sex if he see a simple gaming card like this. While the card don't include a favor text, it also don't include anything obviously sexual.

Maybe the girl only like to have long talks, and if you don't avoid the discussion it takes a long time (your turn)

BTW, my girfriend thought the card is kind of funny. And it's more a stereotype about men, losing their mind near a beautiful woman.
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Adam H
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Cain_hu wrote:
Maybe the girl only like to have long talks, and if you don't avoid the discussion it takes a long time (your turn)

lol thumbsup
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Rauli Kettunen
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j_king wrote:
Clearly she plays an integral part. No flavor text and no mechanics or interactions with any other part of the game. I can see why removing this card from the game would signicantly affect the fun factor and narrative flow. I see that now. snore



How does she differ from say the Goblins in the bottom row? They don't have flavor text or mechanics/interaction different from hers. Guess she should've had the same mouth as the Goblins...
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Nerds call me
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So is the TC saying that hot women AREN'T obstacles for men to overcome? Because, lol, they are.
 
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Noah Bayens
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tekay44 wrote:
You sir, are what's wrong with this country. I couldn't give a rats ass if you are offended. You are trying way to hard.shake

So you're blaming Canada for what's wrong with this country?
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William Crispin
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Having the AP for RotR I would warn that there is rougher stuff than that in the next few chapters although I do not know how much will make its way to the card game. In general the adventure paths tend to not be afraid to have some mature sub-themes.

When I was 12 I was reading the Ace paperback version of the Conan stories and that was not last year . So moving the clock forward a number of years I am fairly certain that only an exceptionally sheltered 13 year old would be unclear or surprised at that card.

Is it sexism? I do not see how it could be. Pazio has a good mix of women doing non-traditional, non-trope stuff in most of the adventure paths. Calling it sexist would be similar to saying that because RPGs are dominated by too many male characters the only non-sexist ones would contain only female characters.

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Bradford Lounsberry
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Being non-sexist isn't the absence of such portrayals, it is the ensuring that such portrayals are not the norm. Because they aren't the norm in real life. One woman that uses her sex appeal to get what she wants in a sea of a large variety of female characters is not sexism.

Pathfinder is full of amazing variety in their characters and even if they do come up with stereotypes, it isn't anymore excessive then it is in real life.

Read up on the backstory of the main villian in this adventure path. How'd her beauty work out for her?
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Thomas King
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rivermoth wrote:
tekay44 wrote:
You sir, are what's wrong with this country. I couldn't give a rats ass if you are offended. You are trying way to hard.shake

So you're blaming Canada for what's wrong with this country?
Makes sense to me, don't you remember the song, "Blame Canada"?
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Paul Bauman
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That card is honestly open to interpretation. It's as sexist as whatever assumptions you use to create a sexist narrative. You could just as well see this wisdom check as your character's determination to see past appearances and not treat an unknown woman, however dressed, as the subject of sexual or romantic advances.
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Martin Wulf
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I can’t wait for Valeros and Merisiel in the Woods with Shopkeeper’s Daughter…bow chicka wow wow…
 
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tim kelly
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Lol, well played Noah.
 
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