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Subject: Revealed while in a shadow stronghold? rss

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Ira Fay
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Hello All,

Let's say the fellowship is hidden, the fellowship track is at zero, and the last known position of the fellowship is Morannon. Then, the Orcs come Patroling, and the fellowship is revealed by the hunt tile. The last known position doesn't change.

Does shadow get to draw an extra hunt tile because the fellowship started (and ended) in a shadow stronghold?

I played it as "no," because the rules say moved from, moved through, or moved to a shadow stronghold, and the fellowship didn't move at all.

Ira
 
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Doug Adams
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I would rule yes - you've been revealed in a nasty place, and have to take your lumps.
 
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Ira Fay
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dougadamsau wrote:
I would rule yes - you've been revealed in a nasty place, and have to take your lumps.


OK. On what basis do you say yes? Do interpret the rule "moved from, through, or to an shadow stronghold" to include moving 0 spaces? Because if you move 0, in my mind, you're not really moving at all.

How do we actually get official rulings, and not simply people's opinions?

Whoever maintains the FAQ, can you update it to reflect this question?

Ira
 
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Doug Adams
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ira212 wrote:
dougadamsau wrote:
I would rule yes - you've been revealed in a nasty place, and have to take your lumps.


OK. On what basis do you say yes? Do interpret the rule "moved from, through, or to an shadow stronghold" to include moving 0 spaces? Because if you move 0, in my mind, you're not really moving at all.

How do we actually get official rulings, and not simply people's opinions?

Whoever maintains the FAQ, can you update it to reflect this question?

Ira


On the basis of consistency. Usually you would move when a hunt is performed, Orc Patrol is an exception. So I would rule you have moved zero spaces, and take the extra hunt tile. The orcs aren't going to leave you alone, just because you're very, very still. I could be correct, or not, and would like to know either way.

I'll ignore the rest of your supercilious post, and add you to my Geekbaddie list.
 
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Philip Thomas
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Ok, so if you are Revealed in a Shadow Stronghold and then Hide and then are Revealed again by one of the 4 cards which draws a tile (in same place) do you get another tile? Seems like you could get Revealed 5 times in the same place and have to draw 10 tiles (including the one that revealed you).
 
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Kevin Chapman
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Since the rules concerning drawing an extra Hunt tile when the FSP is revealed moving into, out of, or through a Shadow Stronghold are under the "Moving the Fellowship" section rather than the "Hunt" section, I would agree that that the penalty does not apply if the Hunt tile is drawn as a result of an Event card rather than moving the FSP, since the FSP does not actually move. I am sure that Veldrin will notice this post before too long and give an official ruling.
 
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Philip Thomas
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Does anyone else have any thoughts on this one?meeple
 
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Dave J McWeasely
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The rules are quite clear, IIRC, even underlining "into" "out of", and "through".

In english, there is a clear distinction between "through" and "inside of". Compare: "The car is through the garage." with "The car is inside of the garage".
 
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Philip Thomas
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Thankyou Weasel

So If you move into Moria and are revealed, you draw an extra tile, and then you hide, and then you move, and you are revealed again, you draw another extra tile?
 
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Dave J McWeasely
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Yup. With great luck you can bomb the fellowship with *3* stronghold tiles in Moria:

1) Into
2) Out of
3) Cruel Weater blows 'em back in, & hunted getting "Out of" again.
 
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David Klempa
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Philip Thomas wrote:
Thankyou Weasel

So If you move into Moria and are revealed, you draw an extra tile, and then you hide, and then you move, and you are revealed again, you draw another extra tile?


And if, on that second move, you decide to stay in Moria (move zero spaces), do you not get the extra tile since you did not move "into, out of or through"?

Just want to be clear.
 
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Philip Thomas
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Plus the Balrog!!
 
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Kevin Chapman
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I checked with Veldrin (the FAQ guy) on his site:
http://veldrin.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=Rules&action=...

It seems no extra Hunt tiles are drawn for reveals inflicted by Event cards.
 
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Dave J McWeasely
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Quote:
No extra tile is drawn.

If the card says "proceed to damage the Fellowship as if the tile were drawn after a successful Hunt" you only damage the Fellowship the same way, all the other rules (such as drawing extra tiles for being revealed in a Shadow Strognhold) are ignored.


Huh? By longstanding tradition, doesn't "damage the fellowship" include revealing it if there's such an icon?

And he's saying being revealed on the far side of Moria doesn't trigger Balrog?

I say again: "Huh?".

And it looks like he's saying that a cheap way to get through Moria is to ramp up the fellowship track, wait for the WK to hit you with Foul Thing from the Deep, get revealed on the other side, skipping the Stronghold tile, the Balrog, etc.

That's the opposite of the way we've played, where, when the fellowship's progress is straddling Moria, you hit them with everything, including the kitchen sink, since ideally you want them to draw a Stronghold tile both for going into and going out of Moria.

This could really explain our total lack of ring victories, guys.
 
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Sean McCarthy
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Whatatnkldsblduh??

The Rules wrote:
Fellowship is revealed by a Hunt for the Ring
If the Fellowship is hidden, its position can be revealed by the Shadow
player as a result of a successful Hunt, or if the Shadow Player plays
certain Event Cards. When the Fellowship is revealed, turn the Fellowship
Progress Counter to its Revealed side, after which the Free Peoples
player must move the Fellowship figure (as described above), except
that this movement can never end in a Region containing a Free Peoples
Settlement.

[Example]

The Fellowship in Shadow Strongholds
When the Fellowship is revealed, and its path traced from its last known
position, if the Fellowship’s has moved through, is moving from, or is
moving into a Shadow Stronghold, then a Hunt tile is immediately drawn
as if a Hunt has been successful. This is done only if the Fellowship is
revealed by the Shadow player, and it is in addition to any further effects
of a successful Hunt. Hunt tiles are explained in more detail later.


Reading this, it's pretty clear that event cards are one of the two major ways to reveal the fellowship along with hunting, and that when the fellowship is revealed it can draw extra tiles. If Veldrin's ruling is correct, it directly contradicts the rules.

The crazy part, which I just realized, is that according to the rules, you can only get extra tiles if the Shadow player reveals the fellowship, which would mean that Gollum's ability doesn't count (and is even better than I thought previously)!

So that's what the rulebook says... what the heck is the intended rule?
 
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Kevin Chapman
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There has been further discussion at the link I posted above. Veldrin has reversed his earlier statement. Hey, anyone can have a bad day! zombie
 
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Doug Adams
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So after all that, the answer is yes, you do draw a hunt tile ... (?)
 
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