David Me
United States
Bowling Green
Kentucky
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Recently comments had been made about me at a gaming place where I like to hang out. The speaker was allowed to go on at length with his 'logic' and arguments. When I tried to reply, I was disallowed a chance to respond. I tried talking to fewer people in a side room of the establishment. I was sought out and again disallowed to respond.

I know this falls under the category of "owner's rights", but it's still distasteful.

What do you folks think?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Less snark is my goal.
United States
Allen Park
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
Have you joined the 2017 Secret Cthanta yet?
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If you like the place, I'd ask the owner why the other guy was allowed to go on and you couldn't respond. It could be that he just wanted to get it over with and thought you were more likely to listen to reason than the other guy - it takes two to argue.
If I didn't like the answer to that question, then I'd probably tell him I was taking my business elsewhere and see if that changed his answer any.
I always think it's best to ask rather than wonder.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Billy McBoatface
United States
Lexington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
KGS is the #1 web site for playing go over the internet. Visit now!
badge
Yes, I really am that awesome.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's hard for anybody to judge unless they have seen both what was said about you, and what your response was. Apparently seeing both of these will not be possible in this hypothetical place.

So why not start discussing it elsewhere. Oh, maybe in a blog? I hear that they're pretty easy to get these days. Then maybe just saying something in this hypothetical place here you aren't allowed to discuss, something that would point people to this blog?

Just an idea.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Me
United States
Bowling Green
Kentucky
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What was said isn't really important. Let's just say it was minor, but slanderous nevertheless. Basically I was accused of defaming someone.

My response was less than I've posted already in this thread and consisted mostly of definitions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
davidme wrote:
but slanderous nevertheless.


I think he has every right to bar you from ever settin foot in that place again.

If he's afraid you could cause trouble, it basically comes down to 'yer money ain't good here'.

When I workd at a game store, we had several paying customers who were no longer allowed to return due to various comments/actions.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard H. Berg
United States
South Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
Two items of note:

Slander is spoken . . . Libel is written. Entires o nweb sites are considered written. Legal semantics, to be sure . . . but they do have different levels of proof.

Slander/libel isa difficult to prove, and dangerous to try to do so. Ask Oscar Wilde.

Freedom of Speech, that shiboleth [sp?] everyone loves to refer to - appleis solely, and specifically, to governmental interference. Private citizens had veery right to limit and exclude whatever they want. I rarely agree with them doing so - i think open, even heated, discussion is A Good Thing, but that they have the right to do so is unassailable.

Being more specirfic and a tad less coy would help folks either flock to your side or join the villagers seekign to burn down your castle.

RHB
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
marc lecours
Canada
ottawa
ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
In the owner's judgement (not yours,mine or anyone elses), your comments were less acceptable than the other fellow's comment. There is no such thing as an objective judge (otherwise there would be no fight to get your guy onto the Supreme Court by political parties.) A flame war is unpleasant to almost everyone except the participants. So just accept that it is over even though it ended unfairly to you. Take the high road and leave it.

Censorship is never pleasant, it is an affront to what we feel is our God given right to say whatever we want. Sometimes the censorship is by the crowd who tell us to shut up when we talk at a movie or say unpatriotic but true words at a political gathering. Sometimes the censorship is by the powerfull as when the music drowns out your overly long acceptance speech at the academy awards or when a scientific journal refuses to publish your theory because it is politically incorrect. Or the ultimate censorship is when you have this really really great thing to say and lightning strikes you dead.

When you are censored by the chairman in a public meeting you can still make a lot of noise and hope the crowd is on your side. Then you get thrown out in a moment of high drama. On internet you are silenced immediately and completely if the owner of the site wants ! It can make a person feel powerless.

Censorship on the internet is particularly harsh and frustrating because it doesn't show. NO one even knows that you had another comment to make and were censored once the comment is erased. I was the moderator of a message board many years ago and I censored many comments in order to keep people on topic(no ugly word fights) and keep commercialism out of the board. I found it distasteful but necessary to maintain the good atmosphere of the board. Whenever I deleted a message I sent an e-mail (when I had the address) with the deleted message and my reasons for deleting it back to the writer of the message. I also posted on the message board a comment letting the general public know that I had censored a message by such and such a person for such and such a reason.

Your ultimate weapon is to take your business elsewhere. Another trick is not to let little comments by others bother you so much in the first place, thus avoiding a flame war. When you take the high road everyone wins. Don't go down to the level of the other guy.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
♪ Isaäc Bickërstaff ♫
United States
Greer
South Carolina
flag msg tools
designer
Entropy Seminar:
badge
The results of a five yeer studee ntu the sekund lw uf thurmodynamiks aand itz inevibl fxt hon shewb rt nslpn raq liot.
Avatar
mb
davidme wrote:
What was said isn't really important. Let's just say it was minor, but slanderous nevertheless. Basically I was accused of defaming someone.


It's interesting to note that David hasn't specified whether HE was the one who said something slanderous/defamous, or if it was the person speaking ABOUT him. Everyone has assumed that it was David, though, and jumped against him.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
I suspect David is referring to a recent thread where he was said to have said certain things that he never actually said. The thread, which ran for about 5 days was eventually locked by the Admins. Then when David posted a thread addressing the person and rejecting that person's comments about him the thread was quickly removed by the Admins.

I'm pretty sure the Admins did the right thing even though David was justified in his outrage and in publically announcing that he never said what he was accused of.

If I was an admin I probably would have removed it also. Not because David was wrong, but because 99.99% of the BGG readers will not think of David in the framework of that one specific comment.

Rest assured, there will be plenty of future opportunities for redress. I prefer to forgive...but to also never forget.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Newman
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
I can't speak for anyone here or elsewhere, but I do know that, in online forums, it's often better to disallow and close follow-up threads on a topic that's already gotten personal, as it's only an invitation for it to get worse. Reopening the discussion seldom makes it better.

It may also be the "second punch" syndrome -- in sports, when two players get into a fight, it's often the second punch thrown that the referees see and penalize, not the first. I'd say take it on the chin if you like to game there otherwise. One thing I've learned is that somewhere someone will hate you, for no reason you can figure out. Just be glad you've already met them and gotten it over with, so you can now move on.

Now, if you won't really be able to play there without playing in a game with that person, and simply being there with them will disrupt your gaming, then you have an issue.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Becker
Canada
Regina
Saskatchewan
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
David,

If we are quick to judge and/or speak harshly with our words or actions others will often return the favour. I have sometimes said things in haste or in anger I have later regretted and those people I hurt or offended are now much less forgiving of my mistakes or incompetence’s. As much as I hate to say this “an eye for an eye” happens much more often than “turning the other cheek”.

Online, a moderator tries to be as fair and equitable as possible. They have a tough job at times. I would guess their first and foremost duty is to promote the goodwill of the discussion forum. They try to call the shots as they see things and take appropriate action when necessary. Nobody really likes flame wars or aggressive behaviour.

If indeed this note is in regards to that thread a few days ago try to let it go and move on. Both sides apologized – it is water under the bridge. If it was regarding another post here or elsewhere then don’t worry too much about things. There is always something we can learn from each experience.

Take care,
Michael
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Me
United States
Bowling Green
Kentucky
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mpevans wrote:

You can't doubt everyone else's word and then expect others to accept yours without question...


I don't demand that anyone accept my word and I certainly don't mind if questions are asked.

BergBROG wrote:
Slander is spoken . . . Libel is written.


Many words have different definitions in "real life" than in courts. I wasn't using the legal definition. www.dictionary.com

BergBROG wrote:
Being more specirfic and a tad less coy would help folks either flock to your side or join the villagers seekign to burn down your castle.


I'm not at liberty to be less coy. I'd hate to be banned from THIS discussion here. And I'm not looking to burn anything down. I'd rather help show the owners that they themselves are burning the castle a bit. I'd like to help build it up but am frustrated by the discussion about how to do so not being open for discussion with the owners.

Blackberry wrote:


Now, if you won't really be able to play there without playing in a game with that person, and simply being there with them will disrupt your gaming, then you have an issue.


I have absolutely no problem with the person. He probably didn't even know what he did was wrong. I was merely trying to correct him and supply a couple of definitions and implications of what he said when using the accepted definitions to interpret them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Bernhardt
United States
saratoga springs
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
davidme wrote:
Recently comments had been made about me at a gaming place where I like to hang out. The speaker was allowed to go on at length with his 'logic' and arguments. When I tried to reply, I was disallowed a chance to respond. I tried talking to fewer people in a side room of the establishment. I was sought out and again disallowed to respond.

I know this falls under the category of "owner's rights", but it's still distasteful.

Why do you folks think?


I would say drop it, especially since 99.99% of us have no idea what you are talking about. Or go to personal emails if that isn't possible. If you are trying to be a martyr because BGG user #66674839 said something nasty to you, a thicker skin might be in order.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The Steak Fairy
United States
Columbia
South Carolina
flag msg tools
Games? People still play games??
badge
Specious arguments are not proof of trollish intent.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If you think the admins here shut down a thread you believe should have remained open, then send them emails and do your damndest to get this despicable practice to stop. BGG errs consistently on the side of sweetness and light, and God knows there's none of that in the actual world of gaming. Or, you could go the entire other direction and write it off as the most trivial possible waste of your time. I'm betting that's closer to the mark. I've had so many comments censored here, and been in so many closed threads, and been warned about being banned...and who really cares? If you get banned from BGG, there are 8 trillion other places to go and pick fights. So rather than try to use vague references to something that happened in some other thread (hey, if this isn't what happened, then blame Tripp for making me think that it did) just keep starting new threads that explicitly address the wrongs and slights you've suffered. I'm sure that the admins are just bluffing regarding any threats against you that they may have made. Call their bluff! Maybe soon you'll own the spanking new, inordinately slow, BGG server!!!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Me
United States
Bowling Green
Kentucky
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Steve, your math is probably a bit off. I'm not nearly as upset about anything nasty being said about me as I am that I am not allowed to respond to something that probably wasn't meant to be nasty. And maybe it's the owners that need thicker skins. I'm for MORE freedom to be offended, not less.

Josh, I agree that it's rather despicable. Most of the times when I've seen this happen here, I feel like I do when someone I love does something wrong. I feel a punch to the gut and a little bit heartbroken that something so good can be tainted by such a wrong-headed decision.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The Steak Fairy
United States
Columbia
South Carolina
flag msg tools
Games? People still play games??
badge
Specious arguments are not proof of trollish intent.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
davidme wrote:

Josh, I agree that it's rather despicable. Most of the times when I've seen this happen here, I feel like I do when someone I love does something wrong. I feel a punch to the gut and a little bit heartbroken that something so good can be tainted by such a wrong-headed decision.


Well I feel for you and honestly wish the admins here were far more hands off, but that's the price you pay to play in somebody else's playground. Based on the few clues I've been given, it all boils down to business decisions, and nobody around here is in the business of providing a totally open forum.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Me
United States
Bowling Green
Kentucky
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Of course nobody wants a totally open forum. But the degree they've gone to shutting down anything that a passerby might view as questionable is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Google could send someone to a thread that makes them have a negative opinion of the site, but I'd bet a much more likely concern of the owners is that they don't want people WHO CHOOSE TO READ to do so because of the negative emotions they might incur. The fewer negative emotions, the higher the possible donations, they may reason.

Going overboard could decrease donations also.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Crane
United States
Orem
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This post is an attempt to continue this thread:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/839444

The "offense" was a threadlock by the operators of this site, not an argument in a game store. That's all.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Me
United States
Bowling Green
Kentucky
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thankfully the mods don't agree that it's a continuation...or this thread would be deleted.

This is about the the flaws of certain methods of stopping people from saying things one does not want them to say.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.