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Pathfinder Adventure Card Game: Rise of the Runelords – Base Set» Forums » Rules

Subject: Defeating the Siren rss

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Matthew D
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The Siren requires a Wisdom check to defeat.

Now, this is probably a dumb question, but if I have Valeros attacking the Siren (or any character, really) can they still use a weapon in the attack?

Or are you only limited to playing cards that boost a Wisdom check?

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M Edwards
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No weapons, you have to boost the wisdom check. (Which is very painful if Valeros doesn't get help)
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Todd Warnken
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The check is not a combat check so you cannot use weapons. Hope that a Blessing of Shelyn is on top of the blessings discard pile or in someone's hand.
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Matthew D
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that's what i thought. it ended up not going too well but i still beat the first scenario. liking the game a lot!
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Matthew Dickerson
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Mundane wrote:
The check is not a combat check


So can you use a Sage on the check? She says "Recharge this card to add 1d6 to your noncombat Intelligence or Wisdom check." Based on the above I am thinking that you can.

If this isn't a combat check, what would be a combat Intelligence or Wisdom check where you wouldn't be allowed to use the sage?
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Laura Blachek
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mcd1901 wrote:
Mundane wrote:
The check is not a combat check


So can you use a Sage on the check? She says "Recharge this card to add 1d6 to your noncombat Intelligence or Wisdom check." Based on the above I am thinking that you can.

If this isn't a combat check, what would be a combat Intelligence or Wisdom check where you wouldn't be allowed to use the sage?


Well, i believe any card that adds to a check for a basic skill can also be used to add to a check on a specialization based on that basic skill... I.e. ezrens arcane is an intelligence check and kyras divine is a wisdom check. Therefore, if either of them were to use their respecive combat spells, those would be combat intelligence and wisdom check?

Anyone care to confirm my analysis?
 
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Malcolm Howell
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slaybalj wrote:
mcd1901 wrote:
Mundane wrote:
The check is not a combat check


So can you use a Sage on the check? She says "Recharge this card to add 1d6 to your noncombat Intelligence or Wisdom check." Based on the above I am thinking that you can.

If this isn't a combat check, what would be a combat Intelligence or Wisdom check where you wouldn't be allowed to use the sage?


Well, i believe any card that adds to a check for a basic skill can also be used to add to a check on a specialization based on that basic skill... I.e. ezrens arcane is an intelligence check and kyras divine is a wisdom check. Therefore, if either of them were to use their respecive combat spells, those would be combat intelligence and wisdom check?

Anyone care to confirm my analysis?

I care to confirm it As far as I understand it:

- You can use Sage to help defeat a Siren, because that's a noncombat Wisdom check.

- If Ezren encounters a monster that requires a combat check and plays, say, Force Missile to make it an Arcane check, because his Arcane skill is based on Intelligence that would be a combat Intelligence check (so you couldn't use Sage). And similarly for Kyra with Divine/Wisdom.
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Nathaniel GOUSSET
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Nefrubyr wrote:
slaybalj wrote:
mcd1901 wrote:
Mundane wrote:
The check is not a combat check


So can you use a Sage on the check? She says "Recharge this card to add 1d6 to your noncombat Intelligence or Wisdom check." Based on the above I am thinking that you can.

If this isn't a combat check, what would be a combat Intelligence or Wisdom check where you wouldn't be allowed to use the sage?


Well, i believe any card that adds to a check for a basic skill can also be used to add to a check on a specialization based on that basic skill... I.e. ezrens arcane is an intelligence check and kyras divine is a wisdom check. Therefore, if either of them were to use their respecive combat spells, those would be combat intelligence and wisdom check?

Anyone care to confirm my analysis?

I care to confirm it As far as I understand it:

- You can use Sage to help defeat a Siren, because that's a noncombat Wisdom check.

- If Ezren encounters a monster that requires a combat check and plays, say, Force Missile to make it an Arcane check, because his Arcane skill is based on Intelligence that would be a combat Intelligence check (so you couldn't use Sage). And similarly for Kyra with Divine/Wisdom.


But Ezren could use the Sage afterward to help him recharge his spell on the non-combat Arcane recharge check.
 
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Greg Byrd
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IKerensky wrote:


But Ezren could use the Sage afterward to help him recharge his spell on the non-combat Arcane recharge check.


Is that true? It's not an "Intelligence" check, it's "Arcane". If this is true, then it seems like Sage is a better card than Acolyte, which is not basic.
 
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Craig S.
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byrdru wrote:
IKerensky wrote:


But Ezren could use the Sage afterward to help him recharge his spell on the non-combat Arcane recharge check.


Is that true? It's not an "Intelligence" check, it's "Arcane". If this is true, then it seems like Sage is a better card than Acolyte, which is not basic.


It's incorrect. Sage cannot help with an Arcane check because the card does not say she can.
 
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Dave Riley
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I believe the ruling is you can use a character to boost a base die on a specific check. A sage could boost Ezren's Arcane check, but not Seoni's. This seems natural to me.

My assumption, though I'm not sure if there's a ruling to back this up, is that any check to defeat a monster is a "combat" check. So I would say you can use a Sage on your Wisdom check versus a Bunyip, which is a pre-combat check, but not against Siren, which is an in-combat check.

I could be wrong about this. In fact, having typed it out, I'm leaning towards I'm wrong. But in that case the only combat Wisdom checks are, say, Kyra casting Holy Light. If casting a spell is the only way you create a Combat check, then we have been unintentionally gimping ourselves versus monsters like Sirens.
 
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Laura Blachek
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Fastkarate wrote:
I believe the ruling is you can use a character to boost a base die on a specific check. A sage could boost Ezren's Arcane check, but not Seoni's. This seems natural to me.

My assumption, though I'm not sure if there's a ruling to back this up, is that any check to defeat a monster is a "combat" check. So I would say you can use a Sage on your Wisdom check versus a Bunyip, which is a pre-combat check, but not against Siren, which is an in-combat check.

I could be wrong about this. In fact, having typed it out, I'm leaning towards I'm wrong. But in that case the only combat Wisdom checks are, say, Kyra casting Holy Light. If casting a spell is the only way you create a Combat check, then we have been unintentionally gimping ourselves versus monsters like Sirens.


I think you are wrong, because the siren specifically says its a wisdom check, while most every other monster has a combat check. You notice the difference on the check listed on the card. Thematically, you aren t drawing a sword and fighting her, you re resisting the mesmerizing song she is singing.

As for being able to use the sage to boost an intelligence based arcane check, i remember going back and forth on this in another thread when i was trying to determine whether cards that add dics to specialized skills were useful to characters without those particular skills, and i thought there was an official word stating that cards that add dice to basic skills can be used for any specialized skills based off of them.

 
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Craig S.
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Fastkarate wrote:
.

My assumption, though I'm not sure if there's a ruling to back this up, is that any check to defeat a monster is a "combat" check. So I would say you can use a Sage on your Wisdom check versus a Bunyip, which is a pre-combat check, but not against Siren, which is an in-combat check.


The check to defeat is not a combat check unless it says "combat".

You may be confusing it with the ruling that states that any damage incurred from a check to defeat a monster is combat damage, even if the check to defeat is not a combat check.

An example of a "combat wisdom check" would be as follows: Valeros has Holy Light in his hand (unlikely, but this is hypothetical) and decides to use it in his combat check against a Spectre. That would result in a "combat wisdom check"; not a "wisdom-based combat check", as that terminology has been changed to avoid confusion.

The long and short of it is that the Sage CAN help to defeat the Siren because it's NOT a combat check... because the word "combat"does not appear above the check difficulty number.
 
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Nathaniel GOUSSET
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csouth154 wrote:
byrdru wrote:
IKerensky wrote:


But Ezren could use the Sage afterward to help him recharge his spell on the non-combat Arcane recharge check.


Is that true? It's not an "Intelligence" check, it's "Arcane". If this is true, then it seems like Sage is a better card than Acolyte, which is not basic.


It's incorrect. Sage cannot help with an Arcane check because the card does not say she can.


Nope, he can. You can have the details on the Paizo forum when I pointed out that the non-combat blessing where limitated because the are used for a XXX skill check and not XXX based skill check.

Vic officially rules that any check that is using a skill dice is a skill check from this dice. It even entered the FAQ. So for Ezren an Arcane check is both Arcane AND Intelligence and can benefit from blessing and allies that boost both.

I agree that this put the Sage on a best position than the Acolyte for recharging spell, but he can't help for combat casting.
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Craig S.
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IKerensky wrote:
csouth154 wrote:
byrdru wrote:
IKerensky wrote:


But Ezren could use the Sage afterward to help him recharge his spell on the non-combat Arcane recharge check.


Is that true? It's not an "Intelligence" check, it's "Arcane". If this is true, then it seems like Sage is a better card than Acolyte, which is not basic.


It's incorrect. Sage cannot help with an Arcane check because the card does not say she can.


Nope, he can. You can have the details on the Paizo forum when I pointed out that the non-combat blessing where limitated because the are used for a XXX skill check and not XXX based skill check.

Vic officially rules that any check that is using a skill dice is a skill check from this dice. It even entered the FAQ. So for Ezren an Arcane check is both Arcane AND Intelligence and can benefit from blessing and allies that boost both.

I agree that this put the Sage on a best position than the Acolyte for recharging spell, but he can't help for combat casting.


Can I get a link to that ruling?
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Laura Blachek
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http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gk

See q. About making perception check.
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Dave Riley
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csouth154 wrote:
The long and short of it is that the Sage CAN help to defeat the Siren because it's NOT a combat check... because the word "combat"does not appear above the check difficulty number.
This actually makes perfect sense, and is in line with "the cards do what they say they do." Not that you encounter non-combat monster checks all that often, but we've been treating monsters like Siren and Satyr as combat, so this makes things considerably easier for a lot of them.
 
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