Overgauss .
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Why does it seem that no one will admit that this is a card based rpg?

Just because this does not exactly match a pen and paper rpg experience does not mean it is absolutely not an rpg.

You can plan party synergy just like an rpg, level characters, grind exp, go on adventures and campaigns etc.

You have inventory, gain powerful items and spells, vanquish bosses, explore sites, but somehow even the presence of character classes (roles if you prefer) does little to elevate PACG beyond the "adventure card game" moniker.

To me it was called an adventure card game to manage expectations from the outset. That way Paizo reps can say that it's not an rpg in any regard as it was designed to be an adventure game instead.

In other words. What does this game need to do so that it could legitimately be called an rpg? What are the things that prohibit you from calling this an rpg?

What are the things? What is missing?

If, say, one were to mention traditional elements that belong in a pen and paper rpg, then I will claim that that is a pen and paper rpg and that this is something different (and still an rpg).

Then I will claim that one could still have those traditional elements in this game. For instance one could have a CGM or CDM customize the card experience manually. That person could pick and choose locations, rewards, henchmen or what have you in advance, or on the fly even, with creative homemade scenario or plot decks.

So someone might say, well you can't actually do that for this, that, and this other reason. To that I would probably say that one actually could if one thought of that box of cards as a rather large rpg toolkit instead of merely a box of adventure cards (don't adventures and rpgs go hand in hand anyway?).

At that point someone might mention that it would not be the same game as originally designed. Fair enough.

However I would reiterate that just because PACG is not EXACTLY like a pen and paper rpg (of which there are a great variety of VASTLY different types), nor like a mush, mud, mmorpg, turnbased nor realtime console game, play by letter, bbs, nor play by email/forum type game does not mean this game is not an rpg.

I just do not see what is missing.

edit: found some of the things
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seb seb2
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i think it depends on "what's an rpg".

For some people it must uses dices,for others not really.In fact i know a lot of people who can't stand rpg with dices...they're focused more on storytelling things.
For some people it's very narrative (ROLEPLAY)...etc



Pathfinder Adventure Card Game is a "door,treasure,monster" game.
With some rpg element.
A sort of rogue like card game.

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Roger McKay
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It is an RPG.
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OverGauss wrote:
I just do not see what is missing.


Freedom of choice. A coherent story developing according to player's decisions. Things happening in the shadows, parallel to players actions but affecting the overall plot. Character customization based on a long list of skills to chose from. A DM, a story teller to move the story forward....

Honestly, dont get the big deal of calling this game what it is not. It sounds by your post that not doing so somehow puts this game below in the scale. And I dont understand why. This game is great as it is by its own merits, but approaching it expecting a full RPG experience is a mistake, and a direct ticket to Disappointment station.

Let it be its own thing. Is still a great achievement in the card game genre. It breaks ground in some undeveloped lands. But it fights in boardgame territory.
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Mariano Rico
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RogMcK wrote:
It is an RPG.


Inform a moderator that we are in the wrong forums then.
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Darrell Goodridge
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RogMcK wrote:
It is an RPG.


I've seen your other posts saying you do not yet own the game, so how can you make these assertions? I was expecting it to be role-playing lite, but it is not. It is a card game with an above average amount of dice rolling. Sure, you can "role play" your character by what boons you go after, but it's really not a RPG.
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Michael Weber
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Right from the start it is not a ROLEplaying game. In a ROLEplaygame you define your role and your character through the process of character generation, which is a lng process with a proper background story and not merely a card with some stats you are given....
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Vladimir Lehotai
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OverGauss wrote:
You can plan party synergy just like an rpg, level characters, grind exp, go on adventures and campaigns etc.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0

A horde of stats does not a roleplaying make. Also as Mariano has said, freedom and choices are quite missing here. Sure, you may have here more choices than in Descent for example, but comparing the choices to those in a pen and paper RPG, it fails horribly. There is a reason why Paizo doesn't advertise it as a RPG.

OverGauss wrote:
In other words. What does this game need to do so that it could legitimately be called an rpg? What are the things that prohibit you from calling this an rpg?

What are the things? What is missing?


For example, how do you roleplay, say, a psychotic human bard who is also a drunkard? Even if you manage to somehow roleplay that, what is the difference in game? In a pen and paper RPG, there is - not only by acting like said character, but by GM's responses as well. Insult a drunkard in a RPG, and you're most probably in a bar fight. What does it do here? Oh right, nothing....

EDIT: better wording
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In an RPG I can have my character go do a sponsored "sit in a bath filled with Baked Beans" to raise money to save the orphanage rather than go to a dungeon and slay monsters to get the cash, can you do this in the Pathfinder card game?

An RPG is not leveling, it is not grinding XP, it is not party synergy, it is story, decision and choices EDIT: And consequences.
If your party choose to go kill the monsters that is fine, but if there is no option other than kick-in-the-door-and-slay-them, even if it's "just" intimidating them or negotiating with them or killing-some-but-not-all-of-them then it's not an RPG.
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Nite Wolf
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In addition to the reasons stated by the posters above, even comparing it to FF VII it will fall short of being an RPG. In FF VII there's a ton of optional quests, areas and (developing) characters to pick up, requiring you travelling around on the world, finding places you didn't know existed from the start.
While appearantly being a good game, PACG is no RPG. Unless you totally redefine the term from how it has been used for decades.
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Cracky McCracken
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To me, true RPGs have a game master. No deck of cards or computer AI will ever replace the flexibility or imagination of a gamer in the GM role.

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Bartow Riggs
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FWIW, In this video: http://boardgamegeek.com/video/31341/pathfinder-adventure-ca...

The designer states this is not an RPG but does not elaborate beyond that. (I'm 95% sure I saw Mike say this but I did not watch the whole thing again.)
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James Webster
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Guys... its an Adventure Card Game. It says so on the box cool

Regular Pathfinder, now that's an RPG. It says so on the logo:


Pathfinder the Adventure Card Game:


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Mixo wrote:
Right from the start it is not a ROLEplaying game. In a ROLEplaygame you define your role and your character through the process of character generation, which is a lng process with a proper background story and not merely a card with some stats you are given....

It's a ROLLplaying game
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Michael Knauss
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RogMcK wrote:
It is an RPG.


Agreed. It is an RPG game.
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John Strong
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Saying this is a RPG is wrong.
Saying this is not a RPG is wrong.

Two wrongs make a right. Both statements are true. Both are false.

There is NO reason regardless to argue over it. Is this a RPG? No. And sure, why not.

When a man and wife put on a butler and maid outfit for a night of "fun", it's a RPG.

When a group of people meet to play one of those murder mystery nights, all dressed and acting in theme (such as 50's theme with malt shakes, burgers, and Elvis playing in the background), they are all involved in a RPG.

Saying this game is not a RPG, well the same argument could be made for every RPG video game ever. That there's no such thing as a RPG video game. Sure you can level up, issue orders, etc. But can you (as an example listed above) pick on a drunken dwarf in a bar and start a fight if you feel like it? ONLY if the code was written into the game allowing it.

TRUE, this is not a pen-and-paper RPG. But a RPG is defined by what YOU make of it. I am no more right or wrong about my opinion on this then anyone else is. Some people swear this is not an RPG. They are right. Others swear this is a RPG. They are right. And they are both wrong.

It's what YOU make it. No reason to argue with points counterpoint. I look at it as a journey. One i am helping to make my very own.

Is it a RPG. Yes. And no.

Either way... just enjoy the experience. YOUR experience!
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cruehitman wrote:
Saying this is a RPG is wrong.
Saying this is not a RPG is wrong.

Two wrongs make a right. Both statements are true. Both are false.

There is NO reason regardless to argue over it. Is this a RPG? No. And sure, why not.

When a man and wife put on a butler and maid outfit for a night of "fun", it's a RPG.

When a group of people meet to play one of those murder mystery nights, all dressed and acting in theme (such as 50's theme with malt shakes, burgers, and Elvis playing in the background), they are all involved in a RPG.

Saying this game is not a RPG, well the same argument could be made for every RPG video game ever. That there's no such thing as a RPG video game. Sure you can level up, issue orders, etc. But can you (as an example listed above) pick on a drunken dwarf in a bar and start a fight if you feel like it? ONLY if the code was written into the game allowing it.

TRUE, this is not a pen-and-paper RPG. But a RPG is defined by what YOU make of it. I am no more right or wrong about my opinion on this then anyone else is. Some people swear this is not an RPG. They are right. Others swear this is a RPG. They are right. And they are both wrong.

It's what YOU make it. No reason to argue with points counterpoint. I look at it as a journey. One i am helping to make my very own.

Is it a RPG. Yes. And no.

Either way... just enjoy the experience. YOUR experience!


Life is an RPG
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The game remains the same whatever you want to call it. If calling it an RPG makes you happy, then call it an RPG. It's not going to change the game as it was designed and I don't think it will change how anyone else sees the game.

I don't understand why it has you so worked up that you want to throw down the gauntlet for a challenge on how it's officially labeled.
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Mr G
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Acererak wrote:
cruehitman wrote:
Saying this is a RPG is wrong.
Saying this is not a RPG is wrong.

Two wrongs make a right. Both statements are true. Both are false.

There is NO reason regardless to argue over it. Is this a RPG? No. And sure, why not.

When a man and wife put on a butler and maid outfit for a night of "fun", it's a RPG.

When a group of people meet to play one of those murder mystery nights, all dressed and acting in theme (such as 50's theme with malt shakes, burgers, and Elvis playing in the background), they are all involved in a RPG.

Saying this game is not a RPG, well the same argument could be made for every RPG video game ever. That there's no such thing as a RPG video game. Sure you can level up, issue orders, etc. But can you (as an example listed above) pick on a drunken dwarf in a bar and start a fight if you feel like it? ONLY if the code was written into the game allowing it.

TRUE, this is not a pen-and-paper RPG. But a RPG is defined by what YOU make of it. I am no more right or wrong about my opinion on this then anyone else is. Some people swear this is not an RPG. They are right. Others swear this is a RPG. They are right. And they are both wrong.

It's what YOU make it. No reason to argue with points counterpoint. I look at it as a journey. One i am helping to make my very own.

Is it a RPG. Yes. And no.

Either way... just enjoy the experience. YOUR experience!


Life is an RPG



DANG!

I Spent forty years thinking it was a minestrone.
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Harrison Swift
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Cracky wrote:
To me, true RPGs have a game master. No deck of cards or computer AI will ever replace the flexibility or imagination of a gamer in the GM role.


This. The thing I most expect a pen and paper RPG to be able to do (more than leveling up, more than having a GM) is to go off the railroad. In the PACG I cannot adventure to find Black Fang and attempt to ally with him, or poison his next meal, or convince him to enter into an arrangement where Sandpoint gives him tribute so he at least doesn't eat human children.

While an enterprising person can create homebrew content for the game, the game still limits you to the railroad set out in that homebrewed scenario.

This is a card game with deck building/leveling up elements, with a story explicitly overlaid onto it. My group plays The Resistance as a storytelling game, but that doesn't make it an RPG.
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Donny Behne
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What difference does it make what you call it? Play it and then decide if you like it. You can call it a labradoodle for all anyone cares. It is what it is - it isn't what genre you slap on it.

Pointless debate is pointless.

RogMcK wrote:
It is an RPG.


You make an incredible amount of assertions for someone who has never played the game.
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Byron Rocher
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With more substance added to this card game, I would gladly play this as an RPG.
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Richard Dewsbery
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If you were gaming in the 80's, when an RPG meant a group of people sitting down and collaboratively telling an adventure story, directed by a GM and with help from rule books, polyhedral dice, pen and paper, then PACG isn't a role-playing game. But neither is FFVII, DiabloIII, Skyrim or dozens of other games which get the label these days.

Whereas if you were gaming on the PS2 in the noughties, FFVII is a role-playing game, as is DiabloIII, Skyrim, and so is PACG.

That you can call a pretty simplisticly-plotted computer game a "role-playing game" always struck me as being a bit odd (although the gap narrowed - and was then eliminated by - MMORPGs), but then, I fell into the first camp rather than the second.
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Roger McKay
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kelann08 wrote:
What difference does it make what you call it? Play it and then decide if you like it. You can call it a labradoodle for all anyone cares. It is what it is - it isn't what genre you slap on it.

Pointless debate is pointless.

RogMcK wrote:
It is an RPG.


You make an incredible amount of assertions for someone who has never played the game.


Pick a unique character, go through a series of adventures, and improve your character's gear, stats, and abilities. RPG. I don't need to play it to tell what it is.

BTW, I now own and have played it. How do you dismiss my opinion now?
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Roger McKay
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I will now point out that there is a great difference between calling it an RPG, and calling it a good RPG.
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