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Subject: Miniatures game like WH40K but not like WH40K. rss

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Alexander Taylor
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I watched a video of a couple people playing Warhammer 40K, and honestly, it doesn't look fun. It looks like the game is mostly just rules memorization, putting the right team together, and rolling dice. HeroClix is like this. I played and liked HeroClix at first, but I grew bored of it. Not to mention WH40K is so expensive for something that doesn't look like much fun. A rule book alone is ridiculously costly. Is there a game that's similar to WH40K (because I like the CONCEPT, but not the way it's executed; the same goes for HeroClix), but:
1. It doesn't require a whole army--just a small team of figures.
2. Rules memorization, team building, and rolling dice are only very small parts of it. It's more focused on in-game strategy.
3. I prefer games of the fantasy genre, but I like science fiction too.
 
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Thanee
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Rolling dice is something you will pretty much always find in skirmish miniature games.

Freebooter's Fate is an exception (it still has a similar luck element with cards, though)

Eden is also nice, esp. with the missions

Bye
Thanee
 
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Alexander Taylor
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Yeah. I know there will be dice rolling in all games. I don't want it omitted. I just don't want the game to rely heavily on it. It's no fun if your fate is entirely in the hands of the dice. But a little bit of luck adds a little bit of chaos to a game.
 
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Christian Holmes
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Check out Malifaux. It only uses a few models per side, and uses an interesting card deck mechanic instead of dice, which gives you a little more control over outcomes, while it still being random.
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Paul Nowak
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Little Wars - Diceless

Song of Blades and Heroes

Hordes of the Things

Heroscape Master Set: Rise of the Valkyrie
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Jessey
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spaztian wrote:
Check out Malifaux. It only uses a few models per side, and uses an interesting card deck mechanic instead of dice, which gives you a little more control over outcomes, while it still being random.


I'll second the recommendation to check out Malifaux. It's incredibly fun!

Also, it's objective based victory not elimination based (well, if you can manage to clean out their whole crew you win, but that's quite difficult except in some matchups and you're better off aiming for your objective/blocking theirs), which adds to the tactical dimensions. Of course, you can also play to elimination (in fact, I think one objective *is* elimination).
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X Topher
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Earth Reborn and Infinity come to mind.

Necromunda (or Mordheim for fantasy) if you can find them. (Long oop, but the rules are free I believe, you just need gangs. The gang members can evolve as you play a campaign.) I really hope they reprint this someday.

I'm also becoming quite a fan of Warmachine, but it's still fairly expensive (not quite as much as WH40k) and list building is very important, but thats part of the fun.
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J H
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Skulexander wrote:
I watched a video of a couple people playing Warhammer 40K, and honestly, it doesn't look fun. It looks like the game is mostly just rules memorization, putting the right team together, and rolling dice. HeroClix is like this. I played and liked HeroClix at first, but I grew bored of it. Not to mention WH40K is so expensive for something that doesn't look like much fun. A rule book alone is ridiculously costly. Is there a game that's similar to WH40K (because I like the CONCEPT, but not the way it's executed; the same goes for HeroClix), but:
1. It doesn't require a whole army--just a small team of figures.
2. Rules memorization, team building, and rolling dice are only very small parts of it. It's more focused on in-game strategy.
3. I prefer games of the fantasy genre, but I like science fiction too.


You might want to look at Warmachine Prime Mk II and Hordes Primal Mk II.
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Anton Tolman
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Alexander, I should preface this by saying I am a LONGtime 40K player. It really is a deep game, and a key part of it is the hobby aspect -- the scenery building and painting, etc. There are a lot of rules, but the world building is just tremendous -- there are tons of published books and stories about the 40K universe, just as an example. The armies are varied and each is unique, and it is a lot of fun to play. It has both tremendous strategic issues going on as well as tactical play. It is also very expensive, even if you focus on plastic minis.

That said: If you like sports at all, I would urge you to consider Bloodbowl - it is fantasy themed. The initial box is expensive, but once you have the board, and at least two teams you are ready to go. You can buy whatever teams you want and paint them up, but you don't have to and you only need so many players for the field (plus backups if your front line guys get maimed, killed, or injured). Bloodbowl, especially when played over time with a group in Leagues is TONS of fun -- your players evolve and get better, etc.

Another option, if you can find it, is the original Battlelore. There is a new one coming out, but I don't know much about it. Although people had different views of it, it is a Command & Colors variant of a sort, using cards in combination with miniatures. It is not as expensive as 40K, but I always really enjoy it. It is also versatile -- you can play the fantasy part of it with spells, etc. or you can play it more along historical lines where some of the fantasy races stand in for historical factions (like the Irish or Scots). Although the cards do restrict your tactical options to some degree, so do real battles. It all boils down to how do you make the most of what is in front of you?

I hope you find something you like!
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Thanee
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While I love Blood Bowl (such an awesome game), it is only fair to mention, that while it is extremely tactical, it is also heavily based on the luck of the dice.

Bye
Thanee
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Anton Tolman
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Thanee, I agree that Bloodbowl is mostly a tactical game, and of course the dice do play a major role, I would argue that maneuvering in such a way as to increase the odds of the dice in your favor reduces the randomness somewhat - so do the re-rolls which are a small part of the strategic element. That said, a die roll is a die roll.
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Josh Parks
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Check out MERCS
 
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Tim M-L
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Song of Blades and Heroes is a favorite of mine.

It uses about 10 miniatures and it facilitates whatever fantasy miniatures you want.

It has good scenarios, which is what makes for good in game strategy. It uses dice in a gambling mechanic, so you choose how much risk you want to take. It does have a lot of options for building your team, but once you have chosen the teams, you only need to be concerned with the options you are using in that session.
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chris leko
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I think you're going to find that most miniatures games have a lot of rules. And rely on dice, though some games mitigate dice better than others.

40k tends to do it by having you roll buckets of dice.

But I find that most tactical miniatures games have a lot of little rules with some weird interactions. Team building and army construction tends to also be a pretty big part of most of these games, if only that you need to create an army that will play well with the way you approach the game.

I would like to, however, try to pimp out my favorite minis game to you!

I think Warmachine Prime Mk II is the best minis game on the market. It touches on both science fiction and fantasy themes (It's a fun steam-punk world) and battles tend to be a lot smaller than what you'll find in 40k. You can even run smaller point level games and still have fun (something I could never do in 40k). A typical 35 point list can be anywhere between 4 models to 60 depending on your faction and list. That being said, there are lots of rules, but most of the rules you need to know during play are written on the cards. You need to know the basic rules for movement, shooting, attacking, power attacks, charging, and a few other things (LoS), but all the model specific rules are written on cards, for the most part.

List construction is a very important aspect of the game, BUT, if you're not playing with people who just try to min-max the best list possible then you can do fun theme lists or whatever you want.

Tactics are very important to this game as well, I think moreso than in 40k (though not so much as in other games like Infinity). And a misplay can really change the way your game plays out. People don't just sit in their deployment zones and shoot the other army off the table. The game really shines with scenario play, and I think the rules are really tightly written. The models look great (for the most part), it can be quite a bit cheaper to play than 40k (though it's still a minis game, so it'll still be a chunk of money.. but i think you could get away with 200-300 bucks to get a nice small force) that could cover you up to 35 points (most people play at 50 at tournaments, but 35 games are also a lot of fun) for awhile. In most cases changing the army is as simple as dropping in a new Warcaster or Warlock.
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Hugh G. Rection
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Go to the Beasts of War YouTube channel and watch the gameplay videos. They cover a lot of interesting ones like Bolt Action, Flames of War, Infinity, MERCS, Warmachine, and more.
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Matt Kaercher
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Skulexander wrote:
It looks like the game is mostly just rules memorization, putting the right team together, and rolling dice.

You've just described the vast majority of tabletop games.

Joking aside have you heard of Infinity? It hits a-lot of your criteria.

Skulexander wrote:
1. It doesn't require a whole army--just a small team of figures.

Your force will rarely go above ten figures, fitting their role as a spec ops team.

Skulexander wrote:
2. Rules memorization, team building, and rolling dice are only very small parts of it. It's more focused on in-game strategy

The game is very tactical and rewards clever play, your space marine can be taken down by your opponents grunts if you're not careful.

Skulexander wrote:
3. I prefer games of the fantasy genre, but I like science fiction too.

No fantasy, unfortunately. But it does have a pretty fairly unusual sci-fi setting, taking inspiration from works like Ghost in the Shell.
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Planescape
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-Leviathans
-Victory at Sea

-Dystopian Wars
-The Uncharted Seas
-Firestorm Armada

-DreadBall: The Futuristic Sports Game
-Blood Bowl: Living Rulebook

----------

I am still wondering which miniatures has the best gameplay? Though, 40k still has the most players I believe.
 
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Big Sean
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Laserburn:

Its an oldish rule set, printed early to mid eighties.
If my memory serves me well, it was a (much) simplified version of traveller initially, I think it actually became WH40K. Im not sure if the writers/designers are the same guys. Its been a long while!!!!.

The game basics were factor to hit check to hit, then hit location and damage.
I think there was several scenarios and expansion books. The publishers were Table Top Games (TTG) in Nottingham. There was a range of 15mm figures that were also produced by TTG (the Imperium and the Red Redemptionists and several "aliens" to boot. A quick search on google and ebay might throw something up. I have a sneaking suspicion its still in production in the U.K..

We always had a blast playing it back in the day.
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Tony Go
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100% for Warmachine Prime Mk II. Such a breath of fresh air from typical miniatures games.

Maybe Galaxy Defenders could work for you as well. But WM is an absolute blast. I particularly like how you can build an army and just by changing out your warcaster, it feels like you have a whole new army.
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David Boeren
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Warmachine/Hordes is a prime one, but eventually you will want to run armies of more than just a few figures. A full army could be more like 25 or so, but it depends a lot on the faction and what sort of force you want to build. It could also remain less than 10 but that will constrain your options quite a bit.

Any of the Spartan Games stuff - Uncharted Seas, Firestorm: Armada, or Dystopian Wars. They tend to have a few more models around as well but they're mostly resin so the cost is low and the amount of assembly & painting is less as well.

Malifaux I'm not sure about. It *was* too complex. Apparently they just did a major overhaul of the rules and simplified things a lot. I haven't gotten to try it out since then so I can't really say. It has/had loads of flavor, just they were too in love with complexity for its own sake and the game was choking on convoluted special rules.

Infinity is an excellent game and typical forces are 8-10 figures at almost any size game. Highly recommended but you absolutely NEED a ton of terrain that blocks line of sight. With a proper table, it's incredible. Without, the game engine breaks *hard*.


There are lots of pretend minis games out there. Heroscape, Battlelore, etc... If you like these that's cool, but they're not really in the same category.
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Thanee
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TheFlatline wrote:
Necromunda was fun but it's not going to ever come back. GW is basically eliminating their extended universe games right now.


Which is a shame. So many awesome games...

Bye
Thanee
 
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J J
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Thanee wrote:
TheFlatline wrote:
Necromunda was fun but it's not going to ever come back. GW is basically eliminating their extended universe games right now.


Which is a shame. So many awesome games...

Bye
Thanee


E-bay is your friend.
 
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CHAPEL
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I'll put my 2cents in for a long lost gem of Legions of Steel. I used to call is space hulk with real tactical feel.
 
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Thanee
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JasonJ0 wrote:
E-bay is your friend.


No, ebay's not my friend. Friends don't take that much money from you!

Bye
Thanee

P.S. I'm actually playing a Necromunda campaign currently and have bought a bunch of stuff (terrain and models) on ebay recently.
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J J
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Thanee wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
E-bay is your friend.


No, ebay's not my friend. Friends don't take that much money from you!

Bye
Thanee

P.S. I'm actually playing a Necromunda campaign currently and have bought a bunch of stuff (terrain and models) on ebay recently.


Oh very well then, two-part silicon rubber and two-part resin are your friends, especially when they come in a nice four-bottle kit...
 
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