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Subject: What would you do ? rss

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juerg haeberli
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Played another game of pug yesterday with my regular pug opponent. A short AAR will follow in the sessions section.
Now I am looking for some answers of all the interested pug players out there.
Its CP action round 2 during the first turn.
The CP chose Panturkismus to include into its starting hand.
The AP chose no card and set up the beach head ( B.H.) adjacent to the Abadan space.
The AP has opened with Project Alexandria for a sligtly modified alternate opening.

Moves:

IN inf div B.H. - Abadan
IN inf div B.H. - Ahwaz
IN cav div B.H. - Amara moving through Qurna

RU inf div Tiflis - Batum
RU inf div Tiflis - Sarikamis
Yudentich Tiflis - Sarikamis
RU cav div Tiflis - Mianeh

RU inf div Oltu - Akhalkaln

Combat:

2 RU cav divs attack ( TU cav div ) in Bayazit

Result:

TU cav div destroyed and advance of 2 RU cav divs into Bayazit

CP answers with an SR using the Goeben card.

( TU cav - div ) Eleskirt - Malazgirt
TU elite inf div Seddul Bahr - Baghdad
TU elite inf div reserve box - Baghdad
TU elite inf div Bulair - Sannaiyat

AP aswers with Blockade played as event

Your are holding the following cards:

Indian Mutiny , Panturkismus , Persian Push , Fresh Recruits , Enver to Constantinople and Reserves to the front.

Its now the second action round of the first turn.
What do you do ?
 
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Kevin Anderson
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Can't really answer this because among my opening moves of choice now is to attack Koprukoy from Sarikamis opening turn every time regardless of card played.
 
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juerg haeberli
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A3RKev wrote:
Can't really answer this because among my opening moves of choice now is to attack Koprukoy from Sarikamis opening turn every time regardless of card played.


And what influence does this have on the situation shown ?

Its the CP's turn to do something......
 
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Kevin Anderson
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Nuttin'...just sayin'....

I would use Pan-Turkism to shore up Koprukoy (or back off into Erzurum) and Van. Move the elites from Damascus to set up SR of the Camel div in order to play Persian Push possibly forcing a preemptive Secret Treaty or Anzac Reinforcements/SR to counter a perceived Liberate Suez threat.
I probably wouldn't have stopped my SRs in Baghdad and gone right to Sannaiyat and maybe Nasiriya. One of the Pan-Turkism OPs can be an attack on Amara for your MO.
Jihad would be Laz or maybe a Marsh in Qurna.
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juerg haeberli
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Ahhh...now you are talking.

What do you think about playing Persian Push directely?
Pro : You get one VP space in Persia first. If he follows you into Persia without playing ST he is stuck with the 2 card and down one ( alas unimportant) unit.
Concerning Jihad it doesent matter if he follows you into Persia with or without ST since current Jihad is 0.

Contra ?
 
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Kevin Anderson
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Most players won't play Persian Push without first SRing the TU/A Camel div to Sulemaniye so they can use it's movement to reach Qum.
Are you wanting to play Persian Push without doing this?
From where would the advance come from?
 
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juerg haeberli
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The advance would come from Baghdad.
Since the camels arent in place yet and ST could be played during next AP action round you would have to play Persian Push now.
I know that PP is usually prepared with camel SR but thats just not the situation here.
 
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Kevin Anderson
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I wouldn't do it unless I could be first into Qum and at least two of the neutral VPs. Are you able to reach Kazvin from there?
There is no doubt the Russians would follow this play with their own invasion to get to Teheran and Qum first themselves possibly with Secret Treaty which I don't play if the CP beats me to Qum.
If you can box him out and hit those cities first on a following turn it may be worth it.
 
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juerg haeberli
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OK it might not be the optimum use of PP but at least you can use it.
In this case this means :
One card removed from deck, + one TU-A inf div, you gain 1 ( actually 2 ) VP's by occupying Hamadan, AP has to decide if it has secret treaty if it wants to use it as event or as ops. If used as event invasion of Persia is pretty limited.

Contra : If AP doesent have ST you could SR camels to the border of Persia and get everything next action round. This option would be even more appealing if you had a 3 ops card left to SR wizh.
 
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Kevin Anderson
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Quote:
Contra : If AP doesent have ST you could SR camels to the border of Persia and get everything next action round. This option would be even more appealing if you had a 3 ops card left to SR wizh.


AP won't need to use ST once Persian Neutrality has been violated to move in (18.8.5.1). No Russian player will allow you to pick up the other two neutral VPs and Qum on a subsequent turn unless he cannot do so.
Don't count on that because I've never seen a Russian player at any level vacate Tabriz without seeing how the Persian situation unfolds.
 
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juerg haeberli
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A3RKev wrote:
Quote:
Contra : If AP doesent have ST you could SR camels to the border of Persia and get everything next action round. This option would be even more appealing if you had a 3 ops card left to SR wizh.


AP won't need to use ST once Persian Neutrality has been violated to move in (18.8.5.1). No Russian player will allow you to pick up the other two neutral VPs and Qum on a subsequent turn unless he cannot do so.
Don't count on that because I've never seen a Russian player at any level vacate Tabriz without seeing how the Persian situation unfolds.


There was a misunderstanding. The option was to SR the camels to the border instead of playing PP, so that you could get all VP and Jihad spaces in Persia. This of course will not work if AP has ST in hand and plays it for event after your SR.
 
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Kevin Anderson
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If he doesn't have it there's nothing he can do about it. If he does he will play it before you can play Persian Push after you telegraph the move. That's not a reflection of weak CP play, almost all CP players do it. Getting there first can be a huge boon to the CP so there's little reason not to force the issue.
 
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Ahmet Ilpars
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I agree with Kevin. Advantages of using Camel unit at Persia is so huge that risking AP Secret Treaty play worth it.

Besides some players do not like to play ST first because of Jihad penalty (I am not one of them).
 
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juerg haeberli
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I probabely agree but since the CP did an SR during the last action round this is a moot point.
If you look at the situation I believe you actually have the choice between two cards you want to play.
Persian Push to get at least 1 (2) VP's in Persia or Panturkismus to form 3rd corps in Baghdad move the elite inf divs from Damaskus to the front, maybe put some pressure on AP around Ardahan gap.
 
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Kevin Anderson
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ilpars wrote:
Besides some players do not like to play ST first because of Jihad penalty (I am not one of them).


I'll play Secret Treaty only if I can get to Qum first to offset the penalty. If Persian Push beats me there it becomes a 2 OP lodestone for the rest of the game. I would rather have that than give up another Jihad point and get a Cordon unit.
Now if ST gave you three such units while the Grand Duke only brought one that might have been a different story.
 
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juerg haeberli
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A3RKev wrote:
ilpars wrote:
Besides some players do not like to play ST first because of Jihad penalty (I am not one of them).


I'll play Secret Treaty only if I can get to Qum first to offset the penalty. If Persian Push beats me there it becomes a 2 OP lodestone for the rest of the game. I would rather have that than give up another Jihad point and get a Cordon unit.
Now if ST gave you three such units while the Grand Duke only brought one that might have been a different story.


I believe we can all agree on only playing ST if you reach Qum first.
Which in the above described situation is possible if CP plays PP first. Question is are the TU-A inf. div., the 1(2)VP's and the removal of PP out of the deck worth it for the CP ?
 
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Kevin Anderson
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Even if you can only get to one neutral VP first I would say so.
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Gabriel Knight
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My 2 cents:

1) I think +1/-1 VP penalty is a must to balance PP/ST and the persian neutral VPs. In that case, playing PP as CP without proper preparation (camels) is not recommended;
2) If you are not playing with +1/-1 VP (as seems to be the present case), as the AP I would rather play ST instead of Blockade as my second action; entering Persia ASAP (and avoiding an early PP) should be a priority. Allowing the CP to play a RP card is not a problem (and I think the CP has more important things to do instead of playing a RP card).
3) If given the opportunity, the CP should seriously consider playing PP. The choice to play it asap or to try to build it properly (to take all Persian VPs, but risking ST as the 3rd AP action) will depend on each players preference (there is no "right" choice).

GK
 
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