Ryan Thompson

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Is the game that riddled with bad gameplay instructions that we are up to that many pages already? I haven't even seen the game at my game store yet. . .

Spidey sense is telling me I should back away slowly....
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Tilou
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Kassanova wrote:
Is the game that riddled with bad gameplay instructions that we are up to that many pages already? I haven't even seen the game at my game store yet. . .

Spidey sense is telling me I should back away slowly....


Half of the questions get an answer within seconds from someone pointing out the rule in the rulebook. So I wouldn't worry much...
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Mariano Rico
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tilouboy wrote:
Kassanova wrote:
Is the game that riddled with bad gameplay instructions that we are up to that many pages already? I haven't even seen the game at my game store yet. . .

Spidey sense is telling me I should back away slowly....


Half of the questions get an answer within seconds from someone pointing out the rule in the rulebook. So I wouldn't worry much...


And the other half is just a repetition of the first half.
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btrhoads
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Kassanova wrote:
Is the game that riddled with bad gameplay instructions that we are up to that many pages already? I haven't even seen the game at my game store yet. . .

Spidey sense is telling me I should back away slowly....


I personally don't think so. I think a lot of people waited a long time for this game and some of the threads were just to talk about it while they wait for it. Yet other threads are about adding stuff and changing rules people did not care for. There are certainly questions about the rules, but most of the common questions are asked 20 different times by 20 different people because they did not see the previous response.

I have seen better rule books, but I think this one is pretty typical. I have seen much worse as well.
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Chad Ries
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I second the posters who have stated many threads were rules questions whose answers are in the rulebook.

And:

If you back away from a game slowly that you haven't even played, you may just miss something great.

Also, many of these threads are people expressing their passion for how much they love this game.

Some threads are philosophical discussions as to what category this game should be filed under. That's because it is a new type of game! How often does that happen?

I have the Character Add on pack, and my game is sitting in my post office waiting for Monday delivery. The majority of the threads have just increased my anticipation.

No game is perfect, but this game seems like a game I will love to perfection.

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Alec Robertson
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The problem with the rules questions is that theres not enough examples and the book doesnt go into enough detail about all of the actions you can take and in what order you could take them in. its sort of like "well its your turn now, do whatever the hell you want." and thats cool for some people because thats how the P&P games are anyway, but in a card game with so many different things that could happen at once, it would have been better to have a bit more rigidity in the rules department.


i just didnt like how certain rules were talked about once and then forgotten about in book later on is all.
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Josh Parks
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magehammer wrote:
I second the posters who have stated many threads were rules questions whose answers are in the rulebook.

And:

If you back away from a game slowly that you haven't even played, you may just miss something great.

Also, many of these threads are people expressing their passion for how much they love this game.

Some threads are philosophical discussions as to what category this game should be filed under. That's because it is a new type of game! How often does that happen?


No game is perfect, but this game seems like a game I will love to perfection.



This, it's an amazing game!
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TS S. Fulk
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1. There is an issue with the rulebook. It seems that it wasn't throughly rewritten after playtesting changes. But in general the game is pretty basic and easy to learn.
2. There are a lot of lazy people that can't be bothered to read the rulebook thoroughly or read the forum thoroughly.
3. There are too many people that are not used to playing RPGs, highly thematic games, games with thick rulebooks that expect the players to use common sense when given a perceived ambiguity. I call those people Euroheads.

So read the rulebook thoroughly, scan the forums for answers to any questions that might arise, use common sense and have a blast.
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Vivienne Raper
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We got this game last week, have played it today and are currently (cross fingers) having no problems with the rulebook.

It's a pretty amazing coop (and I'm a coop lover), feels very different from my 97 other coops, and feels very much like a computer game RPG like Baldur's Gate. The deck levelling mechanic is brilliant fun.
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R N
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Of the 70 pages, 31 are specifically in the rules forum. So saying that it is 70 pages of people just talking about the game is as incorrect as saying there are 70 pages of rules questions. There is a problem with how the rules and cards are presented that causes confusion. This is a popular game so that confusion gets amplified since people do not always search for an answer before posting.

That said there were a number of times that my group had to stop to figure out how a given card is supposed to work. This happened more often than I would have liked or expected (~5 times over two scenarios). However, the game was still fun and I would definitely recommend people try it out.
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Roger McKay
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The game has issues, and I don't mean unclear rules. Read reviews and pay attention to the negatives.

Every big game that releases now has no shortage of flag wavers cheering it on.

Do some research and be sure it is the type of game you are looking for.
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Roger McKay
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veemonroe wrote:
We got this game last week, have played it today and are currently (cross fingers) having no problems with the rulebook.

It's a pretty amazing coop (and I'm a coop lover), feels very different from my 97 other coops, and feels very much like a computer game RPG like Baldur's Gate. The deck leveling mechanic is brilliant fun.



For a co-op, it is surprisingly non-cooperative. I agree that the leveling is interesting.
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Greg
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tssfulk wrote:
1. There is an issue with the rulebook. It seems that it wasn't throughly rewritten after playtesting changes. But in general the game is pretty basic and easy to learn.
2. There are a lot of lazy people that can't be bothered to read the rulebook thoroughly or read the forum thoroughly.
3. There are too many people that are not used to playing RPGs, highly thematic games, games with thick rulebooks that expect the players to use common sense when given a perceived ambiguity. I call those people Euroheads.

So read the rulebook thoroughly, scan the forums for answers to any questions that might arise, use common sense and have a blast.


I agree TS.

I should be getting the game delivered in a few days, so I have subscribed to the game here and have been bombarded with new posts for this game on a daily basis. Had me worried to tell the truth considering the game just came out!

But, considering it's massive popularity, there are going to be that many more people with questions than when a game is bought up at more of an even pace over some more time.

Seems like a trend lately though in many games with people coming here (BGG)first before thoroughly reading rulebooks, or re-checking them. Or they are too lazy to look through the threads to find the answer, before posting a new thread with a repeat question. And, some people do have more issues with ambiguity than others.

People that keep piling up the thread count with repeat questions seem to be hurting the cause because the more threads there are, the less likely people are going to want to search through them all, nevermind getting the designer to sift through them to answer directly.

Oh well, it is what it is. Can't wait to get the game and have some fun.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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I got a chuckle out of this thread. I just recently got back from a month long holiday all over the US and Canada while subscribed to the game. It took me days to get through all the Pathfinder game threads... I think I might have injured my mouse clicker finger!
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Brian
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RogMcK wrote:
veemonroe wrote:
We got this game last week, have played it today and are currently (cross fingers) having no problems with the rulebook.

It's a pretty amazing coop (and I'm a coop lover), feels very different from my 97 other coops, and feels very much like a computer game RPG like Baldur's Gate. The deck leveling mechanic is brilliant fun.



For a co-op, it is surprisingly non-cooperative. I agree that the leveling is interesting.


That was my initial impression too after playing with a group a few times. The game is fun but... but it feels for the most part everyone is off doing their own thing with the occasional help from a blessing or rare spell (or even rarer weapon) assist. I am liking the game, just maybe not as much as I hoped.
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Kelly N.
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I believe the chatter is due to the excitement and passion players (and prospective players) feel about the game. Over the last 2 weeks I have read the threads eagerly, participated in some, and thought of many others......however, I just completed my first game about 15 minutes ago.

I had a great time with my 16yr old son. He played Valeros and I played Harsk. It was a very cooperative game, and we helped each other many times throughout the scenario. We also added role-playing and narrative to make it even more immersive.

While the rules were straightforward for us, and the card actions explained themselves very well, I think this game is well work tons of discussion, questions, and general BGG activity.
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Bartow Riggs
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RayLancer wrote:
RogMcK wrote:
veemonroe wrote:
We got this game last week, have played it today and are currently (cross fingers) having no problems with the rulebook.

It's a pretty amazing coop (and I'm a coop lover), feels very different from my 97 other coops, and feels very much like a computer game RPG like Baldur's Gate. The deck leveling mechanic is brilliant fun.



For a co-op, it is surprisingly non-cooperative. I agree that the leveling is interesting.


That was my initial impression too after playing with a group a few times. The game is fun but... but it feels for the most part everyone is off doing their own thing with the occasional help from a blessing or rare spell (or even rarer weapon) assist. I am liking the game, just maybe not as much as I hoped.


Early in the game I would mostly agree with you that people are running around doing stuff. When the timing/blessing deck starts to get low our group does a lot of discussion and optimizing. I've played 4 times with 4 or more people. We lost one. We won one easily. For the other two we won with one card left (once) and with 2 cards left (once.) None of us were extremely experienced players but the tension was certainly high.

The rulebook is not great but to be fair the mechanics of the game are pretty unique - and actually basically straightforward. It is true that many questions are answered in the rules but not easy to find. As others have said, the rules need a detailed index. I'm sure some excellent playaids will also be posted soon, if they are not already.
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Gregory Curtis
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To make the assumption that there is a problem with a game and you should stay away from it because there threads on rules questions about it....well...is highly questionable. =)

The game is great. The fact that you know what BGG is and have an account here means you should not have any problem with any game in regards to rules as there are always people to help and answer questions.

My sons and I are having a GREAT time with this game. I disagree with the people saying there is no coop to the game. We are constantly discussing tactics, sharing blessings, trading items, discussing who should cover what locations, using powers to assist on fights, discussing closing tactics in order to maximize gear chances and on and on.

Its a great game. Yeah you may have to read a few rule corrections and learn a few concepts from threads on BGG...but to essentially say "Ehh there are alot of question threads on this game...guess I shouldnt play it.." is really being a bit silly IMHO.
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RogMcK wrote:
veemonroe wrote:
We got this game last week, have played it today and are currently (cross fingers) having no problems with the rulebook.

It's a pretty amazing coop (and I'm a coop lover), feels very different from my 97 other coops, and feels very much like a computer game RPG like Baldur's Gate. The deck leveling mechanic is brilliant fun.



For a co-op, it is surprisingly non-cooperative. I agree that the leveling is interesting.


this doesnt make sense. 4-6 player games almost have to co-op heavily to get by. i would not believe anyone who claimed to consistently win a 5 or 6 person game with no character interaction. it is vital to success with that many players.
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Kelly N.
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Tekkor wrote:
My sons and I are having a GREAT time with this game. I disagree with the people saying there is no coop to the game. We are constantly discussing tactics, sharing blessings, trading items, discussing who should cover what locations, using powers to assist on fights, discussing closing tactics in order to maximize gear chances and on and on.


Agreed. Anything less during multi-player would be...well...played wrong.
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Rauli Kettunen
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tilouboy wrote:
Half of the questions get an answer within seconds from someone pointing out the rule in the rulebook. So I wouldn't worry much...


Which is also true for probably 90% of other games. People just can't be bothered to read the rules it seems.

Quote:
And the other half is just a repetition of the first half.


Equally true with so many other games. First posters don't bother reading the rules, second, third and fourth posters asking the same question can't be bothered to search first.

As to availability, if the Finnish FLGS chain has it in store, how can other places not have it? We're not exactly high on the list of delivery destinations I don't think.
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Ken Mikolaj
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tssfulk wrote:
1. There is an issue with the rulebook. It seems that it wasn't throughly rewritten after playtesting changes. But in general the game is pretty basic and easy to learn.
2. There are a lot of lazy people that can't be bothered to read the rulebook thoroughly or read the forum thoroughly.
3. There are too many people that are not used to playing RPGs, highly thematic games, games with thick rulebooks that expect the players to use common sense when given a perceived ambiguity. I call those people Euroheads.

So read the rulebook thoroughly, scan the forums for answers to any questions that might arise, use common sense and have a blast.



"Euroheads"

Love it!!!
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Vivienne Raper
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RogMcK wrote:
veemonroe wrote:
We got this game last week, have played it today and are currently (cross fingers) having no problems with the rulebook.

It's a pretty amazing coop (and I'm a coop lover), feels very different from my 97 other coops, and feels very much like a computer game RPG like Baldur's Gate. The deck leveling mechanic is brilliant fun.



For a co-op, it is surprisingly non-cooperative. I agree that the leveling is interesting.


We were constantly teaming up (husband was Valeros so could give me combat boosts), discussing which locations to take on, sharing blessings... It's at least as cooperative as Pandemic and more cooperative than Mage Knight.
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Mik Svellov
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The premise for the headlne is false.
No game will EVER be available *everywhere*...

I bought the game Saturday, and was surprised to discover that I received 4 posts within minutes of having subscribed to the thread here at BGG. I have never experienced anything even remotely like this before. However, I take it as proof of the interest the game has created.

My current number of unread posts is 104 (after having removed all those I could immediately see was without interest to me.
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Gamer D

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The game is a lot of fun and a big hit with my groups but the rulebook is definitely not as clearly organized as it probably good be. That's why this game seems to generate so many rules question threads. Yes, many of the questions are answered in the rulebook, but players are having a tough time finding those particular rules because they're a little buried in the fine print. The number of threads is further increased by the fact that the games is a card game with hundreds of individual cards with their own effects.

I definitely recommend the game as being a lot of fun, but I also recommend that if you buy the game intending to play it with your gaming group that you sit down, read the rules carefully, and play a one-shot scenario at home with a character or two. That way you can answer the questions your group will inevitably ask without having to try and flip through the book figuring it out.
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