Mathius Nightingale
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Hey Guys,

I have a few questions about the villain listed in the subject.

Let's say Ezren and Merisiel have cornered R&S in the last open location and he's the last card in the location deck.

Merisiel encounters him on her turn and uses a Boots of Elvenkind to successfully pass the stealth check. Does Ezren need to use his invisibility spell to also succeed at a stealth check? I wasn't able to find in the rules how that works exactly. If I do need to use invisibility and did not have it in my hand, would Ripnugget's difficulty check increase by 2 for both of us, or only Ezren?

Secondly, with the "then" clause, if Merisiel fails at the first part (Combat Check 9), can Ezren--assuming he has the capability--re-attempt the first combat check, and then assuming passes it, finish up with the second one? It wasn't clear to me whether or not failed combat checks in a sequential-combat-check-villain could be attempted by another character, or if he was only to do the second part.

Thanks!
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Paul DeStefano
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We play it that whoever is directly encountering that check has to pass the stealth check. Its only on the second guy.

You cannot re-attempt a check.
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Stephan Cleaves
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Merisiel is encountering, therefore she makes the stealth check and it is done for that encounter. If she makes the first combat check and fails the party has lost the encounter regardless of the outcome of Ezren vs Ripnugget (which still has to take place). Ezren cannot attempt Stickfoot if Merisiel did already.
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Mathius Nightingale
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I can understand how the intention would probably be that the person doing the encountering is the only one that needs to adhere to the card's "when encountered" effect.

However, after scouring the rule book some more, I can't find any definitive language that states an assisting character is not allowed to attempt the first check if the encountering person failed. In fact, the language leads me to believe you *can* do so.

"Any character at that location can attempt one or more of the checks, as long as the character who encountered the bane attempts at least one of them."

"Attempt" is the operative word here. In my example, let's apply the second part of that sentence. Merisiel attempts the check and fails, BUT does, indeed, make that check. Then, Ezren also gets the ability to attempt one or more--in this case, more--checks.

Unless you can show me some place I've overlooked stating otherwise, that pretty much tells me that I can use Ezren to clean up on the first part and hopefully finish up on the second.
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Mark Buetow
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Detrimus wrote:
I can understand how the intention would probably be that the person doing the encountering is the only one that needs to adhere to the card's "when encountered" effect.

However, after scouring the rule book some more, I can't find any definitive language that states an assisting character is not allowed to attempt the first check if the encountering person failed. In fact, the language leads me to believe you *can* do so.

"Any character at that location can attempt one or more of the checks, as long as the character who encountered the bane attempts at least one of them."

"Attempt" is the operative word here. In my example, let's apply the second part of that sentence. Merisiel attempts the check and fails, BUT does, indeed, make that check. Then, Ezren also gets the ability to attempt one or more--in this case, more--checks.

Unless you can show me some place I've overlooked stating otherwise, that pretty much tells me that I can use Ezren to clean up on the first part and hopefully finish up on the second.


You've got to be kidding...

"the checks" means "the checks listed on the card" not "checks one character made and failed."

Example: Merisiel encounters a card with two (THEN) checks. She must do the first or second. Or both. If she does one or the other. Ezren can do the one she didn't do. If she fails the first one, Ezren doesn't get to try the first one over for her.

Your "attempt" at reading it your way is negated by this:
Quote:
If the character who encountered the bane is not able to attempt at least one of these checks, the bane is undefeated and other players do not need to attempt checks against it.


It would not say that if Ezren could still give it a go.
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Mathius Nightingale
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Malacandra wrote:


You've got to be kidding...

"the checks" means "the checks listed on the card" not "checks one character made and failed."

Example: Merisiel encounters a card with two (THEN) checks. She must do the first or second. Or both. If she does one or the other. Ezren can do the one she didn't do. If she fails the first one, Ezren doesn't get to try the first one over for her.

Your "attempt" at reading it your way is negated by this:
Quote:
If the character who encountered the bane is not able to attempt at least one of these checks, the bane is undefeated and other players do not need to attempt checks against it.


It would not say that if Ezren could still give it a go.


Yet again, there's no need for any of your patronizing remarks.

The issue is what it means to "attempt" something, which is why I put the word in quotes. The game seems to define it as trying to accomplish something and succeeding. However, if that's the case, why not just use "succeed?" As it stands, an attempt at anything in life doesn't guarantee success, therefore success shouldn't be part of what defines whether or not Ezren can re-attempt the failed check.

Anyone else care to explain to me what I'm missing?
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James Goodfriend

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You're inventing rules that don't exist. There is nothing in the rules allowing re-attempts against failed checks in any circumstance. Saying that the rulebook does not say you can't is like saying it doesn't say you can't add +20 to every check.

One roll against each check.
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Mathius Nightingale
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BuddhaBob74 wrote:
You're inventing rules that don't exist. There is nothing in the rules allowing re-attempts against failed checks in any circumstance. Saying that the rulebook does not say you can't is like saying it doesn't say you can't add +20 to every check.

One roll against each check.


I would absolutely agree there's nothing in the rules that state a check may be re-attempted by the same character upon failure. What I'm arguing is a potential caveat when it comes to combined arms in a then clause encounter.

Again I'll quote myself:

"Any character at that location can attempt one or more of the checks, as long as the character who encountered the bane attempts at least one of them."

While Merisiel failed her first check (in my example), Ezren now has the opportunity to attempt one OR MORE checks, in this case both.

...ah screw it, I concede. I'll just live with the language being used.

I do understand your point here. I suppose I was digging for a greater sense of cooperation out of "team fights." Being able to pick up someone's slack and potentially take it all on in its entirety would have been fun AND thematic. Just imagine: Merisiel is lying on the ground soaked in blooed and Ezren levitates in and blasts Ripnugget with an Arcane Missile and then disintegrates Stickfoot with an Acid Arrow!

At the very least we can gather from the text that there will be encounters featuring more than two checks in sequence due to the "one or more" wording.
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