Ryan Yan
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Shanghai
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In LL PBF#9, Guy made a tricky play as Goldyx which raised my concerns. He challenged an orc, took some Wounds from it, and, after the combat, played stronger effect of Crystal Joy to discard a Wound and take the unique deed card back into his hand.

And then, he used the glade to throw away THAT Wound from his discard! At that moment, the Wound discarded for Crystal Joy was the only Wound in his hand + discard.

Crystal Joy stronger effect:
Gain a crystal of any basic color to your Inventory. At the end of your turn, you may discard another card including a Wound to take this card back to your hand.

It reminds me of a recent discussion initiated by David desJardins in LL PBF#7 regarding a similar End-of-the-Turn problem (glade 'heal' / voluntarily discards vs. the day tactic Planning).

So the problem here is, what is the exact moment of this Crystal Joy discarding among the 7 End of the Turn steps (base game rulebook page 9)?

Glade 'healing' happens in step 4.a.

Voluntarily discarding happens in step 7.a.

If the discarding defined in Crystal Joy is regarded as one way of voluntarily discarding, the play mentioned above won't stand. You got to choose to throw away that Wound (while it's still in your hand) first, then, if you have thrown it away, you've got no Wound anymore to discard to get back your Crystal Joy.
 
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David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
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prograft wrote:
So the problem here is, what is the exact moment of this Crystal Joy discarding among the 7 End of the Turn steps (base game rulebook page 9)?


I think common sense sort of suggests that it happens before you clean up your play area (step 3). You should take Crystal Joy back from your play area before you get rid of all of the cards in your play area.
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Trevin Beattie
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Eugene
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I'm not sure if this is orthodox, but the way I play is that any cards to be discarded or thrown away due to the effect of an action I play in a "tapped" (sideways) position on top of the relevant action card. Then at the end of my turn I'll actually put them into the discard pile (or thrown out of the game) during clean-up. In the case of Crystal Joy, I consider this discard to be the effect of that action, not a "voluntary discard" of cards you don't want in your next hand. So for Crystal joy, I would do:

1. play Crystal Joy during my turn,
2. at the end of my turn, swap CJ with a Wound from my hand
3. discard all played cards (including the Wound)
4. use the glade to return the newly discarded Wound to the Wound deck
 
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Ben Kyo
Japan
Osaka
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Forward 1, Forward 2, Forward 3... siege attack 5?
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Why for this life there's no man smart enough, life's too short for learning every trick and bluff.
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Yeah, I think that play is acceptable. It is counter-intuitive to expect someone to recover Crystal Joy from their discard pile at some point during their end of turn process.

Another way of looking at it is that choosing to put Crystal Joy back in your hand is something that must be done during (at the end of) your turn, and not during the next person's turn (i.e. your end of turn clean-up and processing)
 
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