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Subject: Revised Mordred character with thorough rules explanations rss

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Mike Compton
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I have submitted all of what follows in this first posting on this thread as a Microsoft Word document to BGG. If you want to download it and print it off, then here's the link:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/fileinfo.php?fileid=16242


Also, any additional clarifications (there is at least one currently) beyond what is covered in this initial posting (and, thus, what is covered in the Word document) will be made on this thread by either Tyler or myself.

Also, if anyone has questions about how any of these rules work, please feel free to ask here on this thread and either Tyler or I will respond.

Enjoy,
-Mike.


--------------------------------------------

Rules for playing the role of "Mordred"

The role of Mordred is a great idea and adds a lot of spice to the game. Sacha Spinks (a.k.a. “the_pirate”) originally posted the idea of playing Mordred – a character that plays opposite of the knights. Myself (Mike Compton - a.k.a. “compman”) and my friend Tyler Laing (“TLHobbes”) decided to take that idea and thoroughly play test it. It’s been several months now and we have made lots of modifications and clarifications in the interest of making Mordred playable without loopholes and without making him either too weak or too powerful – keeping some of the original rules posted by “the_pirate” intact. We have had a lot of fun playing this character.

Playing Conditions:
We do not recommend playing with Mordred in the game unless there are at least 7 knights. We often play with all 8 knights (including the Bedivere expansion) so as to accommodate more players. However, it is then definitely known that there is a Traitor in the game. When we play with all 8 knights, we start off the game by creating the normal number of card piles with a Merlin in each but the 8th pile has 6 regular white cards without a Merlin (since there are only 7 Merlins in the deck). Then someone randomizes those piles so no one can tell which pile doesn’t have the Merlin card in it and everyone picks a pile of cards to start with.

Components:
For the role of Mordred, I bought a knight figurine at a games store that sells “Warhammer” stuff. I also printed off a small card that’s about 1 inch X 3 inches and printed Mordred’s name on it (for use when he uses his special power). We play with Mordred as the “grey” or “silver” character so I bought a grey number die for Mordred’s life counter. Mordred starts out with 4 life points just like the knights. Tyler is working on creating a new Mordred character card and will be posting it at some point in the future.

Winning Conditions:
Mordred wins the game if 7 or more black swords lie on the round table in Camelot, 12 siege engines surround Camelot, the round table fills up with swords and black has a majority or a majority tie, or all of the loyal Knights are dead. He starts out the game with 6 black cards drawn from the top of the black deck (just like how the knights start off with 6 white cards).

Progression of Good
Just as the knights must first progress evil on their turn, Mordred must first progress good by doing one of the following:

-Lose a life point

-Draw the top white card from the deck and carry out its action (clarifications on this will follow)

-Remove one siege engine

-Discard two black cards


Playing White Cards
If Mordred, in progressing good on his turn, elects to draw the top white card from the deck then these are the rules governing such an action depending on which type of white card he draws.

Fight Cards:
If a fight card can be legally played on either of the war quests (Picts or Saxons) then it must go there first. If a white card cannot be legally played on a war quest then Mordred has the following options:

-If Mordred is present at a solo quest (Lancelot or the Black Knight), then he may play the white card on that solo quest (more on how Mordred moves in the “Progression of Evil Action” section). Mordred, however, may not play a fight card on a solo quest unless he is present at that quest at the time when he draws the white card in question.

-He may play the white card face down in the discard pile and progress Excalibur.

-He may play the white card face up in front of Camelot. Thereafter, if any of the knights wishes to fight a siege engine, they may use any white cards played in front of Camelot by Mordred to help them fight the siege engine in addition to any fight cards they wish to play out of their hand. However, a knight does not have to use those cards in front of Camelot if they do not wish to. After fighting the siege engine, if the white cards in front of Camelot were used, then they are discarded. If they were not used, then they remain. If there are several white cards that start to accumulate and then one of the knights wishes to use then to fight a siege engine, then that knight must use all of the cards placed in front of Camlot at once (i.e. he can’t take just one of them from the pile).


Grail Cards:
If Mordred draws a grail card then he places it on the grail quest. If the grail quest is already completed, then Mordred has the following options:

-Discard the grail card and progress Excalibur.

-Place the grail card face down on the completed grail quest board to the left of the grail and siege engine icons. This will then act as a siege engine modifier for a latter siege engine battle (more on siege engine modifiers in the “Siege Engine” section).

-Remove a black siege engine modifier from either the completed Grail quest or the completed Excalibur quest (again, more on siege engine modifiers in the “Siege Engine” section of this document).

Special White Cards:
If Mordred draws a special white card as his progression of good, then the following are the rules governing the actions for each of the special white cards. Not in all instances do the special white cards necessarily help the knights.

Clarivoyance: Mordred looks at the next five white cards and reorders them however he wishes. He does not have to show the knights the cards or their order.

Convocation: This works the same as if a knight had played it. All knights may return to Camelot for free and draw cards etc.

Fate: Mordred chooses one of these two options:

1. All of the knights draw one white card (including Mordred who draws last and then must deal with that white card within
the rules specified in this document).

2. Mordred may accuse one of the knights of being a Traitor (regardless of the number of siege engines on the board and regardless of the number of swords on the round table). If the accused knight is loyal, then a black sword (if there is one on the table) flips to white. If, however, the accused knight is the Traitor, then a black sword is added to the round table, all loyal knights lose two cards, and the Traitor may now play as an open Traitor.

Heroism: This card carries exactly the same consequences as it normally would and may be played on any quest (except the completed Grail or Excalibur quests).

Lady of the Lake: If the Excalibur quest has not been completed, then this card progresses Excalibur. If the Excalibur quest has been completed, then Mordred loses two life points.

Merlin: Mordred must choose one of the following applicable options:

1. Removing a Pict

2. Removing a Saxon

3. Removing a siege engine

4. Removing the last standard black card played on a quest. If there are several quests where this applies then Mordred gets to select which quest to remove the black card from (this does not apply to siege engine modifier cards).

5. If none of the previous options are applicable, then Mordred discards the Merlin card and draws the next white card in the deck. If there are no additional white cards in the white deck available to draw after an unusable Merlin, then Mordred must progress good in one of the other ways listed previously in this document.

Messenger: Mordred specifies a knight. That knight may then draw up to three cards from the deck as long as the number of cards drawn does not exceed that knight’s current number of Life Points.

Reinforcements: All of the knights draw one white card (Mordred does not draw an additional white card).

Piety: Mordred chooses one of these two options:
1. All knights gain 1 Life Point
2. Mordred personally loses 3 Life Points

Canceling Special White Cards:
Just as the knights may play Merlin cards to cancel special black cards drawn from the black deck, Mordred may play any 2 special black cards (i.e. any of the black character cards, the “Mists of Avalon” card, the “Dark Forest” card, or a “Desolation” card) to cancel the effects of a white card he draws as his progression of good on his turn. If Mordred had the actual “Mordred” card in his hand at the time, then he may play it by its self and have it cancel a white card without having to play a second special black card.

Progression of Evil:
After the progression of good, Mordred may then carry out an evil action by doing one of the following:

-Move to a new location on the board

*The middle of the board, amidst the siege engines, is hereafter referred to as the “siege camp” and is considered Mordred’s “home base” just like Camelot is “home base” for the knights. Mordred starts the game off in his “siege camp” and moving to a different location on the board is considered his evil action just as relocating for the knights is considered a heroic action. When moving to a quest, Mordred is not placed in the spaces on the board for the knights. Rather, he is placed next to the black boxes that indicate the consequences of a lost quest or, for the two war quests (Saxons and Picts) he is placed on the opposite side of the card spaces facing the knights’ side. Mordred’s presence at a quest does not affect the number of knights that can be present at a quest.

*Special note: when we play, if the Traitor is unmasked then, rather than remove his piece from the board, we simply place it in the siege camp where it will stay until the end of the game. The Traitor cannot be attacked though (more on attacking in the “Fighting Mordred” section).

-Perform an action related to the quest at which he is present in one of two ways:

1. Play a Standard black card. These standard black cards cannot be “Merlined” by the knights during Mordred’s turn. Thus, if he plays the final black card to cause a quest to lose, the knights cannot prevent it through Merlin cards. However, if the quest does not lose, then the knights may Merlin that card after Mordred’s turn is over. If Mordred is at either the Black Knight, Lancelot, or Dragon quest and chooses to play a corresponding black card at one of those quests then, if he plays the card face up for the knights to see its value, he gets to draw a bonus black card (just as the knights get to draw a bonus white card for playing such black cards face down). He may not play a Mercinaries, Pict, or Saxon card unless he is actually at the applicable war quest.

2. Play a Special black card. This applies to the Desolation and Dark Forest Cards (Mordred may not play these cards unless he is present at the Grail quest) and the “Mordred” card (he may not play it on a Pict or Saxon Quest unless he is actually present at that quest at the time) .

-Play a Special black character card. Mordred may play the Guinevere card, the Vivien card, or any of the Morgan cards regardless of where he is at on the board.

*Note: Unlike standard black cards played by Mordred (which cannot be “Merlined” by the knights on his turn), the knights may “Merlin” special black cards played by Mordred on his turn but they must spend 4 Merlins instead of the standard 3 to do it.

-Discard 3 identical black cards to receive 1 Life Point

-Draw 2 black cards. This can be done if Mordred is in the siege camp (just like the knights have to be in Camelot to draw white cards on their turn). The 12 card drawing limit that applies to the knights when drawing white cards also applies to Mordred when drawing black cards. He may, however, gain additional black cards above that threshold of 12 though in the course of being present at losing quests (more on this in the “Completed Quests” section).

-Place a siege engine modifier card (more on this in the “siege engine” section of this document).

*Note: Just as the knights may sacrifice 1 Life Point to perform a second heroic action on their turn (so long as it is not the same type of action as their first action), Modred may also sacrifice 1 Life Point to perform a second evil action (of a different type) on his turn.

Siege Engines:

Once the Grail, Excalibur, and Dragon quests are completed, Mordred does not have to be at those locations to play the black cards that correspond to those quests. However, even though drawing a black Excalibur or Despair/Desolation card for a knight as their progression of evil on their turn places a siege engine down if the Excalibur or Grail quests are completed, this does not apply to Mordred. Mordred may not place a siege engine directly as an action through playing standard or special black cards on the Dragon, Grail, or Excalibur quests if they are already completed. Instead, such black cards are placed on the completed quest board area face down and are used as “combat modifiers”. When the next siege engine is attacked by a knight, any black “combat modifier” cards placed on the board are totaled up. That sum is then added to the die roll of the attacked siege engine. (Ex. There are two black Grail cards and one black Excalibur card for a sum of three combat modifier cards. If the siege engine’s die roll is 7, then the siege’s final combat total becomes 10. Thus, the knight fighting the siege has to have placed a number of fight cards totaling either 11 or higher to have beaten that siege engine.) Note: The only time Mordred may place siege engines directly is through the Morgan card that specifies adding two siege engines to the board.

If the knight fighting the siege engine loses the battle then he still looses a life point as usually. However, if that knight’s combat total (fight card total) was higher than the actual die roll of the siege engine, then subtract the die roll from the knight’s combat total. Then remove up to that same number of combat modifier cards from the board. If the knight loses and his combat total was equal to or less than the actual die roll of the siege engine, then no combat modifier cards are removed from the board.

If there are no siege engines on the board, combat modifier cards placed by Mordred will apply to the next siege engine that is fought by the knights. If Mordred draws a Grail card, the grail quest has already completed, and he does not wish to discard it into the lake to progress Excalibur (or if Excalibur has already completed), then he places the grail card face down and it now acts as a combat modifier – lessening the die roll of the next siege engine that is fought by one. These white combat modifiers may start to accumulate if no one fights a siege engine for a while but, once someone does, all of the white combat modifiers are used at that time. If there are black combat modifiers on the board and Mordred wishes to make the Grail card a white combat modifier, then one of the black combat modifier cards are removed – much like how Grail cards remove Despair cards for the knights.


Mordred’s Special Power:

At any time during his turn, Mordred may use his special power.

Mordred names one knight and that knight will then take the 1in. X 3in. Mordred name card and place it on the Special Power description on his character sheet. That knight may not use his special power for one round. Once it becomes Mordred’s turn again after going through the round, then he takes back the name card and then may choose to use it on any other the other knights except the knight who just had it. At that point, if Mordred forgets to use his special power or simply chooses not to use it, then on his turn the next time, he may use it again on the same knight. The rule here is that Mordred may not use his special power on the same knight in consecutive rounds.


Fighting Mordred:

A knight may, as his heroic action on his turn, choose to fight Mordred using fight cards if both the knight and Mordred are in the same location (quest) on the board. This works in much the same way as fighting a siege engine with the knight playing fight cards and Mordred rolling the die - but there are some differences. Here’s how it works:

The attacking knight lays down his fight cards so that Mordred knows the combat total. Before rolling the die, Mordred may elect to discard up to two black cards (but no more) out of his hand. If he chooses to do so, then he increases his chances of winning in that one discarded black card makes a roll of an 8 an automatic win – regardless of the combat total of the fighting knight’s white cards. A second discarded black card makes a roll of a 7 or an 8 an automatic win – again regardless of the combat total of the fighting knight’s white cards.

If the knight loses the battle with Mordred, he loses one life point and immediately goes back to Camelot. If Mordred loses the battle, then he loses one life point and immediately returns to his siege camp. If Mordred played any black cards to help increase his chances of winning and yet he still loses, then the victorious knight gets to draw a number of white cards from the white deck at that point equal to the number of black cards Morded discarded to increase his chances for victory. If there are no white cards at all in the white deck (i.e. every white card is in a knight’s hand) then there would be no bonus white cards for victory against Mordred.

Knights may fight Morded if they are in Camelot and he is in the siege camp but only if there are no siege engines on the board and if there are at least three swords (regardless of color) on the round table.


Completing Quests:

If Mordred is present at a quest when it is completed and the knights lose, he is rewarded in the same manner that the knights would have been (except he receives black cards instead of white). He also then may return to the siege camp for free if he chooses. If he is present at one of the quests where the board flips over, then he must return to the siege camp (for free). If he is present at a quest that completes in favor of the knights, he loses one life point and immediately returns to the siege camp.

Obtaining Relics:

If Mordred is present at a relic quest when it fails, then he obtains the relic. The relics grant the following privileges:

Excalibur: +1 is added to any of Mordred’s combat roles. If Mordred discards black cards to modify the combat, then having Excalibur functions as an additional modifier. (ex. He plays two black cards to ensure a victory if he rolls a 7 or an 8. Having Excalibur ensures victory if he rolls a 6, 7, or an 8). However, having Excalibur function as an additional modifier does not increase the number of white cards the knight combating Mordred may draw is the knight is victorious.

Grail: At anytime, Mordred may use the Grail to gain 4 life points back and then the grail is discarded.

Lancelot’s Armor: In progressing good on his turn, Mordred may draw 2 white cards instead of one, pick the one he wants to play, and place the other white card at the bottom of the white card deck.

If, in progressing good during his turn, Mordred completes a relic quest in favor of the knights, then the relic goes to any of the knights who are present at the quest at the time of its completion (the knights may determine who gets it if several knights are present). If no knights are present then the relic goes to Mordred (regardless of whether he is there or not). If a relic quest completes in favor of good, Mordred happens to obtain the relic, and he is actually present at that quest when it completes, then he still loses the appropriate number of life points even though he obtained the relic.

If there are no knights present at a relic quest when it is completed by Mordred in their favor then the appropriate number of white sword(s) are still added to the round table but there are no bonus white cards or life points awarded to the knights.
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Mike Compton
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My friends and I have playtested most of these rules and we believe we've worked out all of the bugs. Feedback on how this role works for any of your gaming groups would be appreciated.

Thanks,
-Mike.
 
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Sacha Spinks
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It all sounds pretty good to me.

Well done Mike.

Can't wait to try it out.

 
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Mike Compton
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Thanks.

Tyler and I recognized how great your idea was and we've had a lot of fun working on this.

Hope you like it.
 
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Mike Compton
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Re: Revised Mordred character with thorough rules explanatio
One of the main reasons why Mordred is such a great addition is because it helps to counter a dynamic I've noticed as I've played: namely that it becomes progressively easier for the knights to win against the game as the number of knights increases.

I believe this is because more knights in the game tends to equal more white cards available for playing in the knights' hands as a group (which makes having 3 Merlins available from the group for really nasty black cards much more likely and which makes it much more likely that one of the knights will be well suited to go to a quest that is threatening to fail). It also makes it much more likely that at least one knight can devote himself to fighting siege engines if the Traitor starts playing the "pummel them with sieges" strategy - thus allowing other knights to have the freedom to still go out and win quests. It also results in a greater total number of life points available for burning among the knights from the beginning so as to provide a greater number of options for progressing good on their turns through additional heroic actions to or simply avoiding drawing black cards or placing sieges when progressing evil on their turn. Having more knights can especially make it easier to win if several of the knights converge on a quest to take advantage of the life points offered by being present at a winning quest - allowing the knights the options of then burning those additional life points on their turns - resulting in fewer black cards and fewer siege engines played. And, there is also the "locked into a solo quest" problem that can happen with a fewer number of knights (where one knight happens to be the only knight with the appropriate cards to solve an additional problem emerging at a different quest but can't leave because he was also the one best suited to go fight one of the solo quests).

Having a smaller number of knights tends to equal a smaller number of options because there are a smaller number of white cards available to be played at a given time - making certain ill-timed black cards much more effective - and there are a lesser number of life points available for burning to provide extra heroic actions. Also, in a smaller game, the "pummel them with sieges" strategy on the part of a potential traitor is extremely hard to contend with.

Having Mordred in the game adds the necessary element of intelligence behind a portion of the black cards that come out - thus helping counter the problem I just mentioned above when playing with a larger number of knights in the game. Even with all of those additional life points to burn, there are still going to be some black cards coming out and in more disadvantageous ways for the knights with Mordred in the game. Also, because countering special black cards played by Mordred takes 4 Merlins instead of 3 to counter, and countering standard black cards played by Mordred cannot happen on Mordred's turn, the game can actually put up a decent fight against a larger number of loyal knights. However, the role of Mordred makes the game too powerful if played with a smaller number of knights.
 
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Mike Compton
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Clarification

One rule that Tyler and I agreed upon that isn't made clear in the Word document or in the previous posting on this thread is that there is a hierarchy with regard to Mordred's Progression of Good. At first he only has two options:

1. Lose a life point.

or

2. Draw a white card.


If neither of those options is available to him (i.e. he is at 1 life point and there are no white cards available in the white draw deck), then he must:

3. Remove a siege engine.

If that option is not available to him (i.e. there are no siege engines on the board) then he has the option of discarding two black cards.


(Tyler, feel free to comment here and make clarifications if you notice anything that I missed.)
 
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Marc Hartstein
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Re: Revised Mordred character with thorough rules explanatio
That last rule about the hierarchy of options for Mordred seems a bit clunky to me. Is it really necessary?

How often is the white deck drawn out on Mordred's turn? I don't see it drawn out much in my standard 7-player games.

How often would Mordred want to remove a siege engine from Camelot if there's one available?

I'd think it would be simpler and at least as playable to do any of the following:

1. Mordred may draw a white card or lose a life point. No siege engine option. If there's no white card available, he must lose a life point. (I suppose this allows the knights to sit on all the white cards to attempt to kill Mordred, but it seems like a lot of effort and cost.)

2. Mordred may draw a white card or lose a life point. No siege engine option. If he chooses to draw a white card and there is none available, nothing happens. (This prevents the knights drawing out the deck to cost Mordred life as above.)

3. Mordred may draw a white card, lose a life point, or remove a siege engine. He must choose an option which has an effect (if no siege engines, must choose one of the other two; if no cards, must choose one of the other two; if none of either, must lose a life). This gives Mordred slightly more choice, but none of the choices is attractive. I might well still draw the card.

I just don't like the "if he is at 1 life and there are no white cards" special case. It doesn't seem necessary, and it seems unlikely to come up.

Sorry if this has already been discussed elsewhere.
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The reason why it's there is because we actually had it come up in a game. Before that experience, we just had option one and two for Mordred. But, with 7 knights all drawing white cards, it occured to us that we could take specific steps to ensure that there were never any white cards for Mordred to draw - thus causing him to lose 1 life point each turn and then we could just "starve" him to death (he would finally have to sacrifice his last life point, do an action, and die). We ran Mordred down to 1 life point and there was no sign of it letting up for him and that's when we started discussing the possibility of alternate ways of progressing good so as to prevent the scenario we were experienced from happening as it wasn't any fun for the player playing Mordred.

Perhaps having the "remove a siege engine" possibility only there if the first two conditions are met is not necessary as Mordred would probably never remove a siege engine unless he absolutely had to.
But, the "discarding two black cards" option can be a rather weak progression of good and, if there are no siege engines in addition to the conditions above, then Mordred still has to do something to progress good on his turn.

We tried to account for every possible scenario in our rules explanation so as to make things as balanced and workable as possible - even in extreme circumstances which, though rare, can come up.
 
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Marc Hartstein
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Re: Revised Mordred character with thorough rules explanatio
Oh, sorry, I left out the discarding cards option. I'm going to continue to leave it out, because it doesn't work for me. (And what if Mordred has fewer than two cards, has one life, there are no white cards, and there are no siege engines?)

It seems to me that "starving" Mordred is valid play. To pull it off, the loyal knights are constraining their play. To make sure there are no white cards in the deck, you need to first draw the deck out (this probably means spending a bunch of actions drawing cards when you could be going out and fighting against evil). Then you have to keep it drawn out. This means carefully constraining the timing of when you play special cards and when you finish quests. It probably also means not doing much on the Excalibur quest. To be effective, and guard against unfortunate Despairs, it probably means having a knight sitting in Camelot and drawing cards to make sure Mordred doesn't get them. Extra tricky timing and sub-optimal uses of moves make things harder for the knights, so every life Mordred loses this way, it must be promoting his cause. It also creates a lot of extra opportunities for a savvy traitor to stab the knights in the back. And a traitor in the shadowlands produces more cards in the discard pile for Mordred to potentially play.

With all that, I say let the loyal knights do it. It's not the first valid, but probably suboptimal, SoC strategy which is less fun for at least one player. Or, if it's actually creating a balance issue as well, go with the version which lets Mordred get a free ride if the white deck is empty. That would certainly force the knights to go out and fight evil rather than sitting around in Camelot drawing cards to try to "starve" their adversary.

Then again, I haven't played with your Mordred rules, although I do have a good number of 7-player SoC games under my belt, so this is all just speculation. I just take it as a warning flag when I see patches with patches (in this unlikely situation, here's a special rule...in this even more unlikely subsituation, here's another special rule), and it doesn't look like you need them.

Hmmm...here's another way to sum it up. You have two choices. You can either allow a degenerate situation where Mordred gets a free ride on progressing good, or you can allow a degenerate situation where the knights can starve Mordred.
 
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Re: Revised Mordred character with thorough rules explanatio
With our game where we were "starving" Mordred I believe we were also playing with all 8 knights - not 7. We do this on occassion - knowing that one of the knights will be a traitor. And, if I remember correctly, the traitor was on the other side of the table from Mordred. So, trying to discard cards into the lake or playing any sorts of other cards by the traitor would be compensated for by the other knights who would still get to go before Mordred had his turn.

I agree with your "patches on patches" comment. I'm not really a fan of contrived rules either. I'm hoping to get more feedback from people who play with these rules to see if there are additional ways they have found that work as improvements.

(BTW, if there were no white cards to draw, no siege engines, Mordred had only 1 life point, AND he didn't have at least two cards - then I would think he's pretty much screwed anyway )



 
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Hi, I figure I ought to post something as my name appears in these rules and following postings.

I have a few clarifications on some of the rules:

1) Progression of Good
a) Lose a Life Point
b) Draw the top White Card and carry out its action
c) Remove a Seige Engine
d) Discard 2 Black Cards (but only if there is no White card to draw)

* The difference here is that the discard of 2 black cards only depends on the availability of White cards and is not tied at all to Mordred's life. Mordred may lose a life point as his progression of good with no restrictions. This implies that if he so chooses he may commit suicide. If there are no Seige Engines then Mordred may not remove one as his progression of good.

2) Cancelling Special White Cards
The "Mordred" card may be used by Mordred to cancel any special white card played; not just special white cards he draws during his progression of good. Thus if a knight plays a special white card Mordred can "Mordred" the special white card much like the knights "Merlining" special black cards Mordred plays.

3) Completing Quests
If Mordred is at the Dragon quest when the knights complete the quest victoriously then Mordred loses 2 life points instead of just 1.

4) Grail
Mordred may also use the grail at any time to give a knight or traitor 4 additional life points. It is of course discarded after use. In this way Mordred can heal the traitor, masked or unmasked, as well as heal him self.
 
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Mike Compton
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Thanks Tyler. I knew there would be a few rules I would miss that we agreed on.
 
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George Munzing
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compman wrote:
Clarification

One rule that Tyler and I agreed upon that isn't made clear in the Word document or in the previous posting on this thread is that there is a hierarchy with regard to Mordred's Progression of Good. At first he only has two options:

1. Lose a life point.

or

2. Draw a white card.


If neither of those options is available to him (i.e. he is at 1 life point and there are no white cards available in the white draw deck), then he must:

3. Remove a siege engine.

If that option is not available to him (i.e. there are no siege engines on the board) then he has the option of discarding two black cards.


(Tyler, feel free to comment here and make clarifications if you notice anything that I missed.)


How can the white deck not be available? I suppose if all the knights have all the cards in their hands (or played on the board) then this has a remote chance to to come up but otherwise both decks are immediately re-shuffled.

Just curious
 
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Mike Compton
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The white deck has run out before in a game I've played which is why we have the rules there. I discussed the scenario in which this happened just a few posts previously on this thread if you want to know about it. It was an intentional strategy we (the knights) used against Mordred and it was working. So we felt there needed to be something done about that scenario to give Mordred some other options for progressing good on his turn.

Also, there were some further clarifications made by Tyler (TLHobbes) in a previous post on this thread that apply in this instance.
 
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Greg Todd
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Just a thought, but if you made the rule that if the white deck ran out, Mordred could do nothing for "progression of good", wouldn't that mean the good knights would ensure the white deck didn't run out, so the exception situation would be avoided anyway?
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Mike Compton
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With the rules in place that Tyler clarified, the game works great.

You're obviously free to try out your proposal but I think you'll find that you would be on shaky ground if you allow a scenario where either side (the knights or Mordred) are allowed an "out" for progressing the cause of the other side during their turn. The only scenario that allows for such a one sided turn is that of the revealed traitor (who does not have to progress good on his turn) but he gives up the power of two white swords flipping to black at the end of the game for that privilege (which is pretty significant as it is mathematically sacrificing a potential four sword net gain he would have had had he remained hidden).
 
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Mike Compton
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Update:

My gaming group is finding out that requiring 4 Merlins to eliminate a special card played by Mordred is perhaps a bit too much. We've dialed it back down to 3 Merlins and found that the game is working better.
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