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Subject: 9 Additional Wonders by DisForDefeat rss

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nopizzanocry nopizzanocry
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Hi everyone,

here are some new wonders for the game, I hope you'll like them:

They've been published on GusAndCo, a french fan-site (http://gusandco.net/2013/09/28/9-nouvelles-merveilles-pour-7...)

You can download the cards here:
http://gusandcodotnet.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/wonders-by...

Here's the link to the rules in english:
http://pastebin.com/N5skKZHc

Here's a link to the rules in French:
http://gusandcodotnet.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/rc3a8gles-...

I tried to keep them in the same spirit as the official ones, and they have been playtested a lot already and are perfectly balanced.

Don't hesitate to let me know what you think,
Cheers,
DisForDefeat
 
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Gareth Lloyd
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Re: New Wonders by DisForDefeat
You can do file submission on BGG.
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Shawn George
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Re: New Wonders by DisForDefeat
Hey, and welcome to BGG!

The wonders look really nice at first glance, I'd be curious to give them a play sometime.

Just a suggestion, you may want to upload your files directly to BGG, instead of linking to them on another site. I had never heard of 2shared, and so I was a little hesitant to click the link at first, until I verified that your pastebin rules were legitimate.

You can submit an upload to BGG at the following link: http://boardgamegeek.com/file/new/thing/68448
 
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Brandon M
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Re: New Wonders by DisForDefeat
As others have said - upload to bgg.

You should also make the rules into a pdf w/ images of the particular wonder steps that you are referring too.

As far as mechanical feedback, I don't have enough experience with 7 Wonders to judge, but they look great.

Good job.
 
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Kenneth Stuart
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Re: New Wonders by DisForDefeat
These look very well made and like they will be a lot of fun! I can tell you used the graphics file that I provided here on BGG for much of the artwork as I recognize a lot of the special icons we created.

I'm assuming Persepolis is supposed to be the mask that copies the icon of a green card in a neighboring city? You should use the official mask icon for that.


I am curious if you've seen Lost Wonders, because nearly all of these are the same names as Wonders that have already been created, and some of them even use the same art. These even use some mechanics that were introduced in Lost Wonders, such as wonder affects with blue graphics to indicate they affect all players.

In fact, I wonder if you may be someone I already know and just created a new BGG username to mask your identity! ninja
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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Re: New Wonders by DisForDefeat
These look pretty nice!

There are a couple of tiny problems, though.
For one thing, Chichen Itza and Beijing allow you to take 3 unused black cards and play one; what if there are 7 or 8 people playing? In that case, there wouldn't be 3 cards left over to choose from.

For another, the rules you posted don't have any information on Persepolis. I assume all of those choices are also made at the moment when you build the stages?
 
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nopizzanocry nopizzanocry
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Re: New Wonders by DisForDefeat
Reply => Kenneth Stuart
Yes I definitely used the icons you posted here, though I'm not sure who to give credit for those ? Did you scan them all yourself?

Yes for Persepolis, it's he classic mask, although I couldn't find the right mask in good quality. I have seen the Lost Wonder pack, in fact I checked all the wonders featured on this french site: http://gusandco.net/2012/06/14/7-wonders-compile-de-toutes-n...

But I don't think I used the art of any of those, appart from Venezia?

Anyway, I hope you'll like them, they're fun to play and balanced

Cheers,
DisForDefeat

P.s: no, you don't know me yet, I'm new here
P.s 2: will definitely try to upload the file to BGG
 
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nopizzanocry nopizzanocry
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Re: New Wonders by DisForDefeat
Reply => Kārlis Jēriņš
Yes, I'm aware of that, though it's not really a problem.
You just can't use those wonders when there are 8 players playing.
If there are 7 players you can use both, as they don't take from the same age. at 7 players there will only be 2 black cards left, but that disadvantage is balanced by the fact that the player with these wonders can potentially see ALL the black cards of one age.


Cheers,
DisForDefeat
 
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Nat Levan
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Re: New Wonders by DisForDefeat
Looks interesting. I like a lot of the ideas in the either/or wonder stages, especially the 2 shields or peace option.
Just at a first glance, Agra A stage 1 feels overpowered, especially in games with more players. Have you tried it in games with more than 4 players?
You may also be interested to look at Lost Wonders (fan expansion for 7 Wonders) and Empires (fan expansion for 7 Wonders).
 
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George I.
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Re: New Wonders by DisForDefeat
Nice work and good ideas. I'm going to give you some first feedback how to make it even better.

-------------------

The wonders that need 2x glass or 2x textile (loom) are pretty weak. Alexandreia (A) and Halikarnassós (A) also need 2x of these, but they already produce one.

You're making these wonders totally dependent on their neighbors to produce the second manufactured good (assuming you get the 1st one) or on getting the forum, where in general you have 20% - 50% chances of getting it. Better replace the 2nd same manufactured good with another one.

-------------------

Also, there are many wonder stages where you build the stage, decide your bonus on the spot, but you re-evaluate that stage later!
Examples:
1) 3 VPs or swap 2 leader cards
2) shield or 5 coins
3) 2 shields or diplomacy

These "break" the game concepts because you need "memory" of previous stages when you evaluate them.

E.g. for (1): at the end of the game, you will need to "remember" if you swapped 2 leaders or not to get the 3 VPs. How are you going to remember this? Write it down? Use a token?

(2) You choose shield or 5 coins the moment you build your stage. But this stage will be evaluated 3 (at most) times in the future. How are you going to remember which one you've chosen at the end of the age? And - the most important - how your neighbors are going to remember your choice? Token?

This concept, in general, is absent from 7 Wonders and its expansions. Even Bruxelles who had this problem (copy the last stage of either wonder, left or right) fixed it (copy the last stage of the left wonder), so that you won't need any memory.

Your work has some nice concepts, they could just align better with the game. For example, the stage where you take 6 points OR copy a black card is very good. Maybe 5 could be more balanced, but it has to be playtested. BUT the player should choose at the end of the game his bonus, so that you won't need any memory.

This could even be an excellent modification in the Olympia (B) 3rd stage (5 pts or copy a guild) and actually make its B side more balanced with its A side -- I consider Olympia B inferior to Olympia A in 4+ player games.

-------------------

So, bottom line, the bonuses should be such, so either they are evaluated all at the end, or once or continiously but without needing any memory; e.g., brown cards "wood / stone" are evaluated at every round, but you don't need memory of previous rounds to decide your material.

An example of such a stage would be: immediately get 4 coins from the bank or "steal" one coin from each neighbor (if they have). It's a stage that's evaluated once.

I haven't actually ever seen a "steal a coin" in 7 Wonders, it could add some more interaction between the players. This could be evaluated after the players discard cards, acquire coins, pay debts. This of course needs to be playtested: stealing two coins is moderate / a bit powerful, stealing one coin is ok.

Continue the good work.
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nopizzanocry nopizzanocry
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Re: New Wonders by DisForDefeat
Hi Picon,

Thank you for your feedback, here's my reply:

REgarding the "2 secondary ressources" only Angkor and Rapa Nui are concerned, and they're a bit over-powered in their effects, so this is well balanced. I have kept some stats on the wonders and they all have a quasi-equal ratio of wins.

Regarding the "choices" wonders, the idea is to hide the options you didn't chose on your card (we use the "feet" of the doves, but feel free to use whatever you want) so that everyone can see which option you went for. To chose "at the end of the game" would prove way too powerful imo.

I don't think that they are unbalanced at all. They've already been playtested a lot, and balanced (this is the 10th version).

"Stealing coins" is a great idea, though i feel like it's not really in line with the game policy. The game is about building, not destroying, Antoine Bauza, the creator, stated that he dropped an "Assassin" extansion, where players could assassinate leaders, because players reacted very badly to such a "destructive" option.



Thank you again for your feedback, have nice games !
Cheers,
DisForDefeat
 
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Herr Hase
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Fantastic work!

Can anyone explain the wonders AGRA and PERSEPOLIS (A)?
 
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