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The Dutch Golden Age» Forums » Rules

Subject: Clarification on BROWN (Artist) Actions -- either/or rss

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Snooze Fest
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I posted this as a reply in another thread but thought it would be better as its own thread.

The placement of the OR in the relevant portion of the rules is not clear to me. It could mean that when you take an artist action, you can ...

EITHER
"either: (pay 3 to draw a new artist card), or (pay 1 to an artist you already have)"

OR

"pay 3 to either: (draw a new artist card), or (pay 1 to an artist you already have)"

In the latter case, artists require a lot more money, but the cost:VP ratio seems to be closer to what it is in the rest of the game.

So which is it?

Thanks!

edits: Brown, not red. Also, per Leo Colovini, the first option is correct.
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Wyckyd
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Re: Clarification on Red (Artist) Actions -- either/or
snoozefest wrote:
when you take an artist action, you can ...

"either: (pay 3 to draw a new artist card), or (pay 1 to an artist you already have)"


You indeed pay 3 to grab a new painting, or you pay 1 and add it to an existing painting. Your first interpretation is correct.

(red action confused me a little - we call it the brown action)
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Re: Clarification on Red (Artist) Actions -- either/or
Thanks! That's unfortunate -- it makes the '3' on the board somewhat inaccurate. It also seems to make artists really strong? Hard to know, since I've only played the game twice.

And I've seen "brown" also, but aren't the goods cards brown?
 
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Re: Clarification on Red (Artist) Actions -- either/or
I've had games where the player that invested heavily in Paintings won, but others in which I didn't really take off. Mostly, it takes only 1 coin to get the painting closer to completion, but it takes a lot of actions. And grabbing a brown province like Utrecht gives you an easy action each turn, but it isn't one you can auction easily if you need cash instead.

And the colony cards might look brown, but according to the rules, they are orange ;-)
 
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Re: Clarification on Red (Artist) Actions -- either/or
Let's see ... just running through some numbers assuming you pay full price:

Cash (for comparison)
1 VP = 10 guilders

Artist, 8 VP card
EITHER
7 actions, 9 guilders (paying only 1 guilder when adding to an artist)
1 VP = 0.875 actions + 1.1 guilders

OR
7 actions, 27 guilders (paying 3 guilder for every action, + additional 1 when adding to an artist)
1 VP = 0.875 actions + 3.375 guilders

Artist, 3 VP card
EITHER
2 actions, 4 guilders
1 VP = 0.67 actions + 1.25 guilders

OR
2 actions, 7 guilders
1 VP = 0.67 actions + 2.33 guilders

Colonies
East Indies, 5 VP: 3 actions, 9 guilders
1 VP = 0.6 actions + 1.8 guilders

West Indies, 6 VP: 3 actions, 9 guilders
1 VP = 0.5 actions + 1.5 guilders

Province Influence Markers
4 VP: 3 actions, 15 guilders
1 VP = 0.75 actions + 3.75 guilders

Now really, we need a way to convert actions into guilders, or vice versa, so we could make comparisons more easily. For a simple approximation, we could use the yellow cards: 1 action = 1 card = 5 guilders. Or maybe look at the whole deck, but I don't know the composition of that so let's just go with this for now. So ...

Artist, 8 VP card
EITHER
1 VP = 5.475 guilders
OR
1 VP = 7.75 guilders

Artist, 3 VP card
EITHER
1 VP = 4.58 guilders
OR
1 VP = 5.66 guilders

Colonies
East Indies
1 VP = 4.8 guilders

West Indies
1 VP = 4 guilders

Province Influence Markers
1 VP = 7.5 guilders

So I think you're probably right. Of course, this has involved a lot of guessing and I ignored the fact that some things (colonies) can give you cash; so I could be totally wrong!
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David
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Re: Clarification on Red (Artist) Actions -- either/or
I think you 're wrong. You FIRST always pay 3 to do a "painting action". And THEN you can choose:
OR you take a new painting (card)
OR you pay 1 in addition and you put that 1 on the painting. Once you paid enough on the painting, it is worth it's points.

I have to admit, some rules are very unclear... So, I can be wrong too ;-)
 
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Re: Clarification on Red (Artist) Actions -- either/or
FYI I just got Leo Colovini's reply to the PM I'd sent a while back: the first option is correct.
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