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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Variants

Subject: Faster combat - worth considering? rss

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Chad warden
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Do you think it is possible to make reasonable variant for faster combat? Would removing defense roll with medium value help at all? Maybe remove unconcious rules but increase heroes damage ability? (More lethal combat means faster combat)
 
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David Aubert
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I don't understand ... Combat ARE fast : Just roll, spend surge, count damage and Ta-dam.
It's slightly longer when attacking multiple targets at once (since all of them has a defense roll), but it's not like it take three full hours to make a roll.

Usually counting the number of the defense die take 1 or 2 second, replacing this with fixed number won't improve the whole lot.


I don't understand why you want to remove the unconcious rule too, to replace it by what ? Final death ? Immortality for the heroes ?

More lethal damage means faster combat ... yeah, and it means that the overlord will have nothing to play on his turn ... not so great ...



What kind of problem do you have in your games ? Maybe there is other ways to solve them ?
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Chad warden
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My problem is the fact that combat takes too long. Maybe it is because it were my first sessions.
 
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Ethan
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I believe one of the reasons that they removed a set defense value was to keep players from trying to calculate their success if they spend an action attacking a target.

Yes, I realize that this can still be done, but with both attack and defense rolled there's a lot more room for variation.
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Arthur Peterson
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Combat takes too long? So, 10-30 seconds is too long? Are we talking about the same game here?
 
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Stephen Williams
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Now, now, folks. There may be a reason the OP finds combat takes too long. It might simply be because he's new to the game, or it might be that they've got a rule wrong that's making them take a lot longer than they should. It wouldn't be the first time.


Chad: How long does it usually take you and your crew to resolve a single attack? (One target)

How long does it take you to resolve a single attack with multiple targets?

Can you identify the aspect of resolving combat that takes the longest amount of time?
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Chad warden
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I can only answer to the last question, it would be discussing tactical options, which bogs the game down...

For me fast combat is something like roll d20 to hit, then d6 for damage, the end of attack. (I think defense roll are stupid by the way.) Now, I'm not saying that Descent should be like that, because it's tactical game. I would like it to be medium speed. But for me it falls into very slow category. After all, scenarios have only 2 encouters, because battles take so long, while in HeroQuest from what I've seen you can have about 5-10 encounters without the game taking whole day.
 
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Gabriel Manasan
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But, but... combat rolls in Descent 2nd Ed ARE that fast. One roll for the attacker and one roll for the defender. And then the attack ends. Maybe you tap a few cards here and there, activate a few abilities, but that is hardly a lot of overhead (and I might argue, those abilities are a core part of the game).

Are you counting discussion on movement, placement and turn structure to be part of combat?
 
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Chris J Davis
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chadwarden wrote:
I can only answer to the last question, it would be discussing tactical options, which bogs the game down...


This is actually something I quite strongly agree with, but I wouldn't count that as "part of combat". The actual combat resolution (i.e, the dice rolling and the use of any abilities) is actually relatively fast (and is certainly not slowed down any more by the defence dice, which should be rolled simultaneously with the attack dice).
 
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Arthur Peterson
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Quote:
For me fast combat is something like roll d20 to hit, then d6 for damage


This is exactly as fast as Descent combat, i.e. two dice rolls. Actually, Descent is faster because the two rolls are simultaneous.

 
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Darren Nakamura
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It seems to me like the OP doesn't actually want *faster* combat, but *less* combat. Removing defense roll would certainly work toward that very slightly, as both heroes and monsters would be defeated more easily. However, with Reinforcements and Stand Up/Revive, I don't think it would reduce the amount of combat that much, while simultaneously breaking the intended flow of a lot of quests.
 
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Bob Holmstrom
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No.
 
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Adny Riik
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chadwarden wrote:
I can only answer to the last question, it would be discussing tactical options, which bogs the game down...
So the combat does not take too long, your players are just talking to much. Nothing you can do to the game will make them talk less
 
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David Aubert
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In that case, add a countdown :
5mn per heroes
(N-1)x5 mn for the Overlord (N=Number of heroes)


So in 5 players, heroes has 20mn and every 5mn an hero must end his turn.
So if they talk 15mn, only one hero can act. Should help them to speed up ...
 
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Arthur Peterson
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Good grief. If a hero ever took 5 minutes on a turn I think I'd shoot him. The whole hero round shouldn't take much more than 5 minutes, if that.
 
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Stephen Williams
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chadwarden wrote:
After all, scenarios have only 2 encouters, because battles take so long, while in HeroQuest from what I've seen you can have about 5-10 encounters without the game taking whole day.


HeroQuest runs faster because there are less options to consider. Each hero could move, attack, or search in an empty room, IIRC. Only the wizard and the elf had cards to deal with.

If you want Descent to run like that, try this as a variant: No class skills, no hero abilities. Heroes will basically only be able to choose Move, Attack or Search. Attacks will always be basic Melee or Range attacks without skills to do weird things with. There's also nothing for heroes to spend XP on, so you might consider converting XP awarded into extra gold or something.

I'm actually quite serious about this variant, btw. I may even try it myself, just for kicks. It sounds harsh and it is, in a way, but it also greatly simplifies the hero player's tactical options.


PS: I find it amusing that you use HeroQuest as an example, since it also uses a defense roll mechanic...
 
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