Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Thunderstone» Forums » Rules

Subject: Epic Thunderstone rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Robert Huffman
United States
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
This summer I bought a used version of Thunderstone and 3 expansions all together. I didn't play it until this past weekend. I read through the rules and watched 2 different youtube videos on the rules as well. I then watched Tom Vasel explain the only way to play Thunderstone is the "Epic Thunderstone" way. Then after playing through the game a few times, I have a feeling something is wrong due to the vague explanation of rules on these videos and the poor rule books.


Base set questions:

1. Hero cards/Randomness; In Lord of the Rings LCG and Mage Knight, you place your heroes on the table and use them whenever your turn allows. In Thunderstone, you have to place those heroes in your deck and the only time you can use them is IF they come up in your draw of 6 cards that turn? What if you need to kill a monster in the dungeon and you don't have the right combo? (like no swords or weapons and only iron rations or a torch) This mechanic seems to make defeating monsters really difficult especially if you reshuffle the deck every few turns? Isn't the game based on killing monsters in the dungeon and if you don't know when or how, doesn't that kill the whole premise of the game? Shouldn't the heroes you bought be on the table to use whenever you need? How can you employ any strategy with this mechanic?

2. Weapons cards; (Similar to the Hero question)... shouldn't they be assigned to a hero? Especially since a Mage or Healer should not be able to use a sword (with the whole strength issue)? Why does the weapons go into the discard deck to pull out randomly? This is confusing.

3. Beaten dungeon enemies; When you beat an enemy in the dungeon, the rules state that you place that card in your discard deck. Is that right? A beaten monster card doesn't seem to help you. In fact it seems to "clog up" your hand when you might need a hero or weapon. Why don't you just take a reward of XP and gold, and be done with that beaten monster card?

4. Hero limit and militia; If your only allowed 3 heroes in the base game rules, why would anyone level up a militia to a hero decreasing your "fighter" cards in your deck? If you didn't level up a militia you'd have 3 militia and 3 heroes (6 fighting cards potentially).

5. Dungeon cards face up; The base rules suggest that three dungeon cards get revealed at the start of the game right? Shouldn't those cards be placed face down, because how would you know what is in this dungeon until you go down there (theoretically)?

6. Hand Limit; Does your hand limit increase over the course of the game (from 6)? More than 6 would be really helpful since the randomness and size of your deck will grow.

EPIC THUNDERSTONE QUESTIONS

1b. 3 or more Heroes; If you have all level 1 heroes in three or four piles (Tom Vasel suggests you keep the higher leveled heroes in the box alphabetically to go retrieve later), does that mean you can have more than 3 heroes in your deck? Because the base set suggest that you can only have 3 heroes per player. If you can only have 3 heroes in your deck, how would you know how many heroes you have? Since Thunderstone seems so random having more than 3 heroes seems to be helpful. Does that mean you remove the hero cards (from the table) as soon as every player has 3 heroes each?

2b. Treasures; In one of the expansions there are treasures. The rules of that expansion suggest you place the treasures in the dungeon deck. What if all three monsters in the dungeon have been defeated, and a treasure comes up next in the dungeon? Who gets that treasure card?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Slotten
United States
Saint Charles
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
1. Think of this game as building a powerful deck of cards, not building heroes in front of you. The deck is your “pool” of resources from which you’ll pull heroes, items, and weapons. Yes you only use the heroes if you draw them. If you need to kill a monster and don’t have a combo? You use your turn to either buy another card from the village, level up a hero if you have the XP, or take the opportunity to rest (remove) an unwanted card from your deck, like a Disease. The game is based on killing monsters, but you don’t do that each turn. The game is about building your deck and then picking off the monsters when you can.

2. Weapons need to be assigned to heroes to be used. The idea of the game is that your deck is the resource from which you draw a hand of stuff each turn. The strategy is to use what you’ve been given for that turn only. It’s not a traditional card game in the sense that you play heroes and weapons out in your tableau and they stay there. If you did, you’d have Heroes of Graxia and you’d have a mess on your hands.

3. Yes, defeated monsters go in your discard pile and will get shuffled into your deck. Beaten monster cards give you victory points at the end of the game so they do help you, and sometimes they give benefits like gold or extra attack. However, they dilute your deck, so too many monsters makes your deck run crappier. You take the monster card instead of just gold and XP because at the end of the game you total all the points in your deck.

4. Let’s say all the players have been leveling up a bunch of characters, and the only character left to grab is a level 3. I level up my puny Militia and take the level 3 hero. BAM! I'm confused about your statement about only 3 heroes. You can have as many heroes in your deck as you want.

5. Correct. Three dungeon cards face up. Thematically I see what you’re saying; you shouldn’t be able to see in the dungeon, but the part of the strategy of the game is deciding which monster to go after and how deep you want to go. You need to know what monsters are out in order to know what heroes and items to buy.

6. Hand limit does not increase. But cards will allow you to draw more cards during your turn, which is very useful.

Epic (This is the only way I play Thunderstone anymore; so fun!):

1b. You can have as many heroes in your deck as you want.
2b. I think whomever defeated the monster and caused the treasure card to get revealed gets the treasure. That’s how we’ve been playing it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Huffman
United States
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
Thank you so much!

I think I've been playing a lot of Mage Knight and Lord of the Rings LCG and am used to building (like LEGOS) those characters. Putting weapons, armor, etc etc... like you would in World of Warcraft or Skyrim.
The game's randomness is my biggest confusion and frustration, but I think I'll give it another "whirl" with these rule clarifications.

I could swear that the rules said, that you could only have 3 heroes, but maybe I read it wrong.

The dungeon face up... ok. No problem.

I'm still a bit "fuzzy" about the treasure rule you've got. Are you saying you have a deck of treasure cards and when you defeat a monster, you get a treasure? Because the rules said to put these treasures IN the dungeon deck.

Thanks again Stephen, you've helped me a ton!

RMH
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Slotten
United States
Saint Charles
Missouri
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Is this your first deckbuilding game? It's quite a different concept if you're used to CCGs or LCGs. My wife and I only play the epic variant now, and I think we put in 2 or 3 treaures in the dungeon deck, we also add 3 traps and 2 Guardians (from expansions).

The 3 hero limit may refer to the three stacks of heroes that are out in the village for purchase. Remember, you can buy as many heroes as you want during the game, even the same hero over and over again.

Just remember the general flow of the game is: Draw 6 cards. Decide if you want to buy a card from the village, enter the dungeon, or ditch a card from you hand from the game (called 'resting'). Then you peform that action, place everything you played, defeated, or bought into your discard pile, and then draw a new hand of 6 cards. You're trying to make your deck more powerful as you progress through the game so you can defeat higher strength monsters faster. But monsters aren't everything. Level 3 heroes as well as some items for purchase have victory point values.

As far as the Epic variant goes-it's a bit more thematic because you play with all the cards and you never really know what's going to be available for purchase in the village. Also your deck feels like it has more options and it helps eliminate the combo crazy feeling of "sameness" turn after turn that can come from the basic setup.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Huffman
United States
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
that is great information!
Your awesome Stephen.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lyn Fox
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
This user will support the website in the future.
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
skslotten wrote:

4. Let’s say all the players have been leveling up a bunch of characters, and the only character left to grab is a level 3. I level up my puny Militia and take the level 3 hero. BAM!
Bam what? You cannot skip levels. A militia can only level up to an available level 1 hero. If there are none, then you can't level em up.
Level 1 heroes can only level up to their corresponding level 2, and level 2s to the level 3 of the same type, and so on.

(edited 'cause it originally may have came off more hostile then intended. It was meant to be merely informative)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Huffman
United States
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
Since everyone was so great helping before, and I roped my wife into a few games, I have a few more questions (especially since I wasn't sure how to answer her). Maybe you can give a better answer:

1. Weapons (like swords or axes) need to be attached to heroes to use. So shouldn't spells be too? I mean isn't a spell a magic users weapon of choice? I say that because in the rules, they state that spells can be used at any time regardless if you have a hero in your hand. I need a clarification on this.

2. Some cards talk about the effects on heroes (especially on monster cards). When they refer to the term "Hero" are they including Militia too? This also makes me wonder why there isn't more talk about Militia being Heroes in the rules.

3. I need a clarification on throwing away cards on your "resting" action. What can't you throw away? Because I keep hearing deck building experts talk about "crafting" your deck and I am assuming they throw away cards that aren't really effective in later stages.

4. I watched a video where they played Thunderstone, and the players were holding onto 1 or 2 cards. I remember hearing them say they were holding onto them to "concentrate" or "powering up" for the next round/turn (so they'd have 7 or 8 instead... more options in other words). What are they talking about? I thought you had to throw away all your cards at the end of your round/turn. Or is this a certain card that allows that?

5. When you kill a monster, do you get XP only once, or every time? Don't you put that monster in your discard pile, so it's going to come up again and you can use that gold to help buy things? And aren't those monster cards going to clog up your hand or deck? I mean I can't throw them away because I'll need them for points at the end of the game. I need a clarification on this.

Thanks again guys!

P.S. and no this isn't my first deck building game, just the only one I want to really play. I don't like Dominion or Star Trek TNG games I own.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Will M. Baker
United States
Silverton
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
Stinger8414 wrote:
1. Weapons (like swords or axes) need to be attached to heroes to use. So shouldn't spells be too? I mean isn't a spell a magic users weapon of choice? I say that because in the rules, they state that spells can be used at any time regardless if you have a hero in your hand. I need a clarification on this.


Spells may be used even if no hero is present. Think of yourself (the player) as a Wizard so weak you're unable to equip even a dagger, but your arcane knowledge is great. You head into the dungeon even if noone else does.

Stinger8414 wrote:
2. Some cards talk about the effects on heroes (especially on monster cards). When they refer to the term "Hero" are they including Militia too? This also makes me wonder why there isn't more talk about Militia being Heroes in the rules.


Yes, Militia are heroes.

Stinger8414 wrote:
3. I need a clarification on throwing away cards on your "resting" action. What can't you throw away? Because I keep hearing deck building experts talk about "crafting" your deck and I am assuming they throw away cards that aren't really effective in later stages.


With some very rare exceptions (Rage of the Disowned, Blood Debt, Curse of War) you may destroy any card when resting.

Stinger8414 wrote:
4. I watched a video where they played Thunderstone, and the players were holding onto 1 or 2 cards. I remember hearing them say they were holding onto them to "concentrate" or "powering up" for the next round/turn (so they'd have 7 or 8 instead... more options in other words). What are they talking about? I thought you had to throw away all your cards at the end of your round/turn. Or is this a certain card that allows that?


I have no idea. There are some cards that will allow you to manipulate which cards you will draw next time, and there is now a Prepare action that allows you to seed your next hand with cards from this hand. But there is no blanket rule that lets you hold over cards from one hand and add them to another six cards for your next turn.

Stinger8414 wrote:
5. When you kill a monster, do you get XP only once, or every time? Don't you put that monster in your discard pile, so it's going to come up again and you can use that gold to help buy things? And aren't those monster cards going to clog up your hand or deck? I mean I can't throw them away because I'll need them for points at the end of the game. I need a clarification on this.


You get the XP only once, as a Spoils effect for defeating the monster. You may use its gold each time it comes up in your hand. And yes, they will clog up your hand. One of the core challenges of the game is how to continue defeating monsters even while doing so continues to dilute your deck.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Huffman
United States
Arizona
flag msg tools
Avatar
Awesomeness!

Thank you!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Matecha
United States
Florence
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Stinger8414 wrote:

4. I watched a video where they played Thunderstone, and the players were holding onto 1 or 2 cards. I remember hearing them say they were holding onto them to "concentrate" or "powering up" for the next round/turn (so they'd have 7 or 8 instead... more options in other words). What are they talking about? I thought you had to throw away all your cards at the end of your round/turn. Or is this a certain card that allows that?


Thunderstone Advance introduces the 'Prepare' action in which you may discard any of the cards in your hand and then place the remaining on TOP OF YOUR DECK which means they will be the first drawn when you draw a new hand.

Since you redraw immediately it may make more sense to simply discard what you don't want and redraw to 6, skipping replacing the 'prepared' cards back on the deck.

For example I want to buy a village card that costs 7gold but my cards provide 2,2,1,0,0,0 gold for a total of 5.
I announce I am taking a prepare action and discard the three 0gold cards then draw back up to 6 cards hoping for more gold. My turn is done.

Hope this helps!

-Michael Scott Matecha
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.