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Subject: Losing only one VP per resource per round rss

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Kim Choy
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Not having played the game, I don't know how often this would come up. But if I understand correctly, the rule for losing VP's due to lack of resources is that you only lose one VP per resource per round.

Is there a way to keep track of this during play? I can imagine that it could be difficult to remember. One way to do it might be to place a "used" (X) marker over top of the resource symbol on your player mat to indicate that the VP has been lost that round for that resource. Then return all "used" markers after the famine/scoring phase.
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Daniel Hammond
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I never had a problem keeping track of it for me or the other players in the game. It is rare for you to take hits that reduce you to zero and when you do people notice and remember. You could lose food 3 times (potentially) production, war and famine but we will remember yeah, you have to lose more food but have already paid the VP cost for it.
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umchoyka wrote:
Not having played the game, I don't know how often this would come up. But if I understand correctly, the rule for losing VP's due to lack of resources is that you only lose one VP per resource per round.

Is there a way to keep track of this during play? I can imagine that it could be difficult to remember. One way to do it might be to place a "used" (X) marker over top of the resource symbol on your player mat to indicate that the VP has been lost that round for that resource. Then return all "used" markers after the famine/scoring phase.


i was thinking the same. it isn't very intuitive...
 
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Kim Choy
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dlhammond wrote:
I never had a problem keeping track of it for me or the other players in the game. It is rare for you to take hits that reduce you to zero and when you do people notice and remember. You could lose food 3 times (potentially) production, war and famine but we will remember yeah, you have to lose more food but have already paid the VP cost for it.


You could say the same for activated abilities, but they explicitly included the "used" markers for just that.

Personally I don't envision having a problem with remembering these details , but I could see it being a potential issue for some.
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Lewis Wagner
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I never had a problem tracking this for me and for all other players. Having a problem with this is highly unlikely.

Most things that will reduce you to zero happen at the end of the turn, in what are essentially clean up phases that affect everyone and are resolved quickly. It's possible to go below zero in the heart of a turn, but it's very rare, and it would be something done deliberately by a player, so very likely to be remembered.
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Rustan Håkansson
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The used markers will probably be ignored and not used by many, but for those that need them they need to exist. Using the VP loss limit rule is uncommon like Lewis and Daniel write, and is much much clearer and easier to remember. Most often what happens is that you do not have enough food to pay upkeep during production so pay what you have and lose VP, then pay some more books when you do not have enough to pay for famine. You will certainly remember that you paid a VP for food just before, the time spent in this phase is very short.
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Kim Choy
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Sounds good. I think the source of my question is that the VP rule is stated three or four times in the rule book making it sound more important than it might be.

Thanks for the replies!
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Rustan Håkansson
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Ok. Yes, it is important to learn the rule, without it it would be critical to have sizeable resource buffers. With it, it is ok to live more on the edge or even completely lack production in something for a while. Important to learn, easy to remember in play
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Jonathan Ramundi
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I think I understand the rule now, but just to be incredibly clear (sorry):

Using the example on page 18, "Example: If you should pay 5 stone but only have 2, you lose those 2, 1 VP, and 3 books."

If that player had only 1 book instead, he would lose, in total 2 stone, 1 VP, 1 book, 2 food/gold.

Am I correct?
 
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Rustan Håkansson
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Jotora wrote:

Using the example on page 18, "Example: If you should pay 5 stone but only have 2, you lose those 2, 1 VP, and 3 books."

If that player had only 1 book instead, he would lose, in total 2 stone, 1 VP, 1 book, 2 food/gold.


If you lose more stone than you have and also more books than you have you lose 1vp for each, so 2vp.
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RustanR wrote:
Jotora wrote:

Using the example on page 18, "Example: If you should pay 5 stone but only have 2, you lose those 2, 1 VP, and 3 books."

If that player had only 1 book instead, he would lose, in total 2 stone, 1 VP, 1 book, 2 food/gold.


If you lose more stone than you have and also more books than you have you lose 1vp for each, so 2vp.


so he loses 2 stone (instead of 5), 1 book (instead of 3 needed because of missing stone), 2 VP (one for missing stone + one for missing book) and then 2 other resources (gold or food and not a mix of both) for the 2 missing books, is that correct ?

and if he has only 1 food and 0 gold then he has to spend it and loses 1 VP again + there is no gold left then he loses another 1 VP : he reaches the maximum of 4 VP and as he has no more ressources, it stops here.

is everything correct here ?

EDIT : loose -> lose (thanks Rafael!)
 
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Rafael Hannula
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powerwis wrote:

and if he has only 1 food and 0 gold then he has to spend it and looses 1 VP again + there is no gold left then he looses another 1 VP : he reaches the maximum of 4 VP and as he has no more resources.


Ultimate despair. Worst case ever laugh

Also loose -> lose meeple
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Rustan Håkansson
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Yeah, correct. But even losing 2 VP is very uncommon and there are lits of ways to counter it usually. The main reason this extreme exception exists (losing 4 VP) is to close a potential for abuse in certain situations.

A more common scenario, especially in 2-player games if you play very aggressively, is to lose 2 VP due to not having enough in 2 different resources in a single round. It can still be a good move if it hurts the opponent more in some way, but you will most probably both have limited options next round.
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Jonathan Ramundi
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powerwis wrote:
and then 2 other resources (gold or food and not a mix of both) for the 2 missing books, is that correct ?
You can't choose 1 gold and 1 food (in this example), it would have to be either 2 gold or 2 food?
 
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Jotora wrote:
powerwis wrote:
and then 2 other resources (gold or food and not a mix of both) for the 2 missing books, is that correct ?
You can't choose 1 gold and 1 food (in this example), it would have to be either 2 gold or 2 food?


correct !
 
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