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Subject: Cards that you love/hate to draw rss

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Owen Compton
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Following on from my gushing thread, I would like to just quickly quote myself to set up this thread.

The Sacred Voice wrote:
Race's one of the few games where I could probably list my favourite worlds and developments and not necessarily because of their in game value but just because they're the cards I love to see when I'm playing for a reason I've never been able to explain. I have a similar list of cards I dislike and I can feel myself mentally rolling my eyes when I draw them.


There are cards I love and hate to draw. Cards that I likely overvalue or undervalue because of their fiddlyness or niche role in only a handful of strategies. Obviously we all develop our own playstyle, and remaining flexible in Race is always best, but there are some cards I can't help but love.

What are you favourite and least favourite cards?

To start:

I like drawing...

Epsilon Eridani - Absolutely obsessed with this starting world. When you get a lot of middling starting hands then I just love the flexibility this world provides. 1 military, even when following a Consume strategy, can be so handy.

Trading Outpost - I think my strategies overvalue the Trade action, which means I always like seeing this.

Investment Credits - It's generally handy, doesn't cost 2 like Interstellar Bank and doesn't come with a consumer power I fear I might never use in my strategy (Public Works).

I hate drawing...

Old Earth - This card looks flexible, like Epsilon Eridani, but I almost never find it's powers as immediately useful as I do Epsilon's.

Research Labs - Urgh, 4 cost? For what it does I never want to pay 4 for it. I get that being able to keep a second card on explore is pretty awesome, particularly early game, but it feels like a massive expense early game and then late game you want more +Look rather than +Keep so you can find the last pieces you need. The gene good selling is handy occasionally but I think I've only triggered the Alien produce a handful of times ever.

Imperium Cloaking Technology - Even though I can see why it's useful, for some reason I resent all those "discard me later" effects.
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Jonathan C
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I love drawing (or starting the game with) both Pan-Galactic mediator with Contact Specialist, if I can keep them both. And of course a handful of 1-defense brown or blue worlds.

I also rarely ever play Research Labs. Explore seems to be a very week strategy to get the job done. Although I must admit, because so many in my gaming group excessively use Explore actions, it would actually be pretty beneficial.

I hate drawing gambling world (never use it), and Pilgrimage world. Never play them into my tableau. Made the mistake of playing Pilgrimage world once and lost (for 0VP) a prized Alien good I was hoping to trade.
 
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Owen Compton
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Totally forgot about Gambling World. In my hundreds of games against the AI then I think I've played Gambling World twice, and both times were to leech off a Settle with nothing better to play.
 
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J
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I think you are selling Gambling World short (The Fixed Gambling World that is not the original crappy one which I do agree is worthless). I would not say that I "hate to draw it" and I'm actually okay with getting it early because it is a very cheap card and actually does not have that terrible of an ability.

Cards I hate that have not been mentioned:
Galactic Renaissance: A less than stellar power and rarely worth that many points.

Pan Galactic League: Same as above. Tried to be the "Green" 6 Dev but just does not give enough points or a good enough power to work well or be worth playing.

Earth's Lost Colony: A starting world that doesn't really give a good card flow advantage or military and can actually work against getting cards if your good will be consumed when you don't want it to be.
 
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Henry Allen
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I can't think of any card that I hate to draw.

I'm always desperately trying to figure out which cards I will be willing to give up to play other cards so I'm quite happy to draw any card that makes that decision easier!

Following from that, my FAVORITE card to draw is Gambling World! Now that is one I know I can spend to play something else without fretting too much so I love to draw it
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Palmer Truslow
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I hate contact specialist for reasons I'd rather keep to myself.
 
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Serge
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Base: hate Distant World.


TGS: hate Galactic Genome Project.


RvI: love Imperium Blaster Gem Consortium, Uplift Code.


BoW: love Terraforming Engineers, Galactic Scavengers.



allstar64 wrote:
Pan Galactic League: Same as above. Tried to be the "Green" 6 Dev but just does not give enough points or a good enough power to work well or be worth playing.

I quite like PGL. I have a soft spot for those great military produce leeches. I usually find a Contact Specialist to go with this so it generally scores well enough as well.
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John
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I like to draw Alien Rosetta Stone World. Mainly I like the artwork and the theme of discovering something that opens up possibilities. A slighlty more rational reason is that 3VP for 3 cost is fairly good, and the Alien settle bonuses are nice to have in case I pick up any Alien worlds.
 
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Owen Compton
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Awww Distant World! Distant World has done some good things for me in some games, but I agree it usually gets pitched unless I'm heading towards some kind of Diversified Economy/Galactic Markets board.

Galactic Genome Project is pretty meh, I agree. Anytime I draw it I'm like "Who EVER has enough Green worlds to sate this 6 Dev's appetite?!

I always feel amazing anytime I can settle Imperium Blaster Gem Consortium, I don't share the love for Uplift Code, mostly because of how rarely I seem to be able to get it to work.

Terraforming Engineers makes me feel like I need to be a more skilled player to play with them. Galactic Scavengers is similar for the same reason but I've got used to their quirks.
 
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Jonathan C
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The Sacred Voice wrote:
Galactic Genome Project is pretty meh, I agree. Anytime I draw it I'm like "Who EVER has enough Green worlds to sate this 6 Dev's appetite?!


I've experienced one or maybe two epic victories with both green six-cost developments in play and a slew of green worlds. One thing is for sure when you make this strategy work--you have no problem with card flow!
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Michael Grankin
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Peter Bakija
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The Sacred Voice wrote:
Epsilon Eridani - Absolutely obsessed with this starting world. When you get a lot of middling starting hands then I just love the flexibility this world provides. 1 military, even when following a Consume strategy, can be so handy.


Of the two, I vastly prefer Separatist Colony; early in the game, the +2 explore helps a lot (draw 5, keep 2 is great early on), and I find the consume power of Epsilon Eridani to just as often be problematic as not--you settle that early cheap windfall world on the same turn that someone plays a consume, and suddenly your play to turn that green good into 4 cards becomes 1 card and a VP chip, which early in the game (which is when you wanted to do this) is a real drag. I mean, like, I'm not trying to convince *you* not to like Epsilon Eridani or anything, but I'm much less a fan :-)

Quote:
Trading Outpost - I think my strategies overvalue the Trade action, which means I always like seeing this.


Trading Outpost is certainly strong, but often the cost to play it is hard to recoup through its power, given the situations where you would tend to play Trading Outpost.

Quote:
Investment Credits - It's generally handy, doesn't cost 2 like Interstellar Bank and doesn't come with a consumer power I fear I might never use in my strategy (Public Works).


Yeah, I like Investment Credits as well. Unless you *know* you aren't playing any developments (which is pretty rare), this is pretty much always going to pay off a lot. And being able to drop a 1 cost development for nothing on someone else's develop phase is awesome.

I'm a big fan of Consumer Markets (for the good, old blue produce/consume engine which is still pretty solid, even with all the expansions going), Galactic Advertisers is surprisingly effective in pretty much any situation, and Hidden Fortress is a great draw if you are playing Military.

Quote:
Research Labs - Urgh, 4 cost? For what it does I never want to pay 4 for it. I get that being able to keep a second card on explore is pretty awesome, particularly early game, but it feels like a massive expense early game and then late game you want more +Look rather than +Keep so you can find the last pieces you need. The gene good selling is handy occasionally but I think I've only triggered the Alien produce a handful of times ever.


It is much, much more useful in the Solitaire vs the Robot game (where exploring is often your best move). And if you play with people who like to explore a lot, it is a nice way to maximize leeching off of that.

Quote:
Imperium Cloaking Technology - Even though I can see why it's useful, for some reason I resent all those "discard me later" effects.


Yeah, I'm with you on this one. I don't think I have ever used it's power. Granted, we almost never use Takeovers, but even its non Takeover power. I really have only ever played it to get VPs off of Imperium.

I tend to totally ignore/instantly discard Gambling World (unless I desperately need a VP consume, and even then, I ignore the Gambling); I always *want* to like Replicant Robots, but more often than not, I play it early when it is most useful, and it puts me in a deep hole that I never get out of, so as a result, I tend to just ignore it when I draw it. I'm sure there is a good way to use Replicant Robots, but I never manage to make it work.
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Owen Compton
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bakija wrote:
I always *want* to like Replicant Robots, but more often than not, I play it early when it is most useful, and it puts me in a deep hole that I never get out of, so as a result, I tend to just ignore it when I draw it. I'm sure there is a good way to use Replicant Robots, but I never manage to make it work.


I have exactly that feeling with Replicant Robots! I always think "That's gotta be awesome and useful", but 4 cost is SO painful! And you can usually find some niche strategy that wants it, or a rare scenario where you have cards to spare and you want to do a leech, but it's so expensive for it's point value and I've never seemed to make use of it, even in niche strategies.
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Serge
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The Sacred Voice wrote:
I have exactly that feeling with Replicant Robots! I always think "That's gotta be awesome and useful", but 4 cost is SO painful! And you can usually find some niche strategy that wants it, or a rare scenario where you have cards to spare and you want to do a leech, but it's so expensive for it's point value and I've never seemed to make use of it, even in niche strategies.

Yeah, maybe it shoulda been a 4/3.
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Lance McMillan
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Gambling World is so universally despised in my group that by consensus we've pulled it out of the deck entirely and never play with it.

Old Earth Worst. Starting. World. Ever.

The only thing Pilgrimage World needs to make it worse is to drop its point value to zero. As it stands the ONLY reason I'd ever play this cow flop is near match end if I had a bunch of resources sitting around on my planets with no other consumer demand to employ them.

Research Labs Lemme get this straight, I can consume genes for a VP but I get an extra card for each alien tech that I produce? The two toughest suits to get into in the first place, and I need to be active in both to get the full benefit of this card? Riiight.

I far prefer Separatist Colony over Epsilon Eridani; I typically find the latter's demand more a liability than an asset.

Mining Conglomerate is the classic "meh" card. It offers a nice range of enhancements if I'm focusing on rare elements, but there's almost invariably some other card in my hand that I'd prefer to play when the opportunity comes up. I hate it not because it's a bad card, but because it's so uncommon for events to work out so that I want to play it.

Favorites? Any of the production worlds that give you a card when they produce, Imperial Blaster Gem Consortium, Galactic Trendsetters, and Alien Toy Shop.
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Jonathan C
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The Sacred Voice wrote:
bakija wrote:
I always *want* to like Replicant Robots, but more often than not, I play it early when it is most useful, and it puts me in a deep hole that I never get out of, so as a result, I tend to just ignore it when I draw it. I'm sure there is a good way to use Replicant Robots, but I never manage to make it work.


I have exactly that feeling with Replicant Robots! I always think "That's gotta be awesome and useful", but 4 cost is SO painful! And you can usually find some niche strategy that wants it, or a rare scenario where you have cards to spare and you want to do a leech, but it's so expensive for it's point value and I've never seemed to make use of it, even in niche strategies.


Four-cost for RR is much more manageable to get into play quickly if you first play a card into your tableau which gives you a development bonus, i.e. investment credits or interstellar bank. But it behooves you to make this happen ASAP so that you can capitalize on the first or second "Settle" action.
 
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J
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Hey I'm seeing a lot of Gambling World] hate. However there is actually 2 versions of Gambling World (it was revised in RvI) and I can't tell if the hate is directed towards Gambling World 1.0/1.1 or Gambling World 2.0. Could people clarify which Gambling World they hate (even if it's both of them)?

Gambling World 1.0 Was the Base game Gambling World with the chart which had you pick a number and reveal the top card and if it matched the number you got to keep it.

Gambling World 1.1 Was Gathering storm which was identical to 1.0 but updated the chart

These early iterations of Gambling World truly were trash and universally loathed.

Gambling World 2.0 Was when (in my eyes) they finally fixed it. This is it.

I actually like this version and I don't mind throwing it down early off of a cheap settle. Early on if you ante 1s or 2s you have a decent chance of drawing an extra card but late in the game you can begin anteing useless 4s and 5s in hopes of finding a good 6 Dev. I've actually been able to use it pretty well and surprise some of my opponents plus it gives you bonus points from Galactic Bankers.
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Serge
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I quite like Gambling World myself, and have played it as early as turn 1 for its gambling power to return profits over the whole game (with a less than ideal hand). The deep "explore" is indeed also nice, with military and any strategy really, mid-late game.
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David
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Gambling World (v1.1) was also one of the four cards in my wife's 4 card tableau which crushed me mercilessly once. And then just for the consume power. (ELC and Toy Shop were 2 of the others, the last a cheap production world).
 
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Matt N

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Lancer4321 wrote:


Old Earth Worst. Starting. World. Ever.


Hardly. Old Earth is middle of the pack in the base set, but falls off rapidly after that. It's only disproportionately bad in RvI, where it's on the wrong side of the field, and BoW, where it's massively counterfeited by already powerful cards.

Old Earth is the one world where you hardly ever have an awkward transition from midgame to late game strategy. It has the consume powers that are actually tough to get in the base set. I still don't understand why it had to be crippled compared to others later on.

Lancer4321 wrote:

Mining Conglomerate is the classic "meh" card. It offers a nice range of enhancements if I'm focusing on rare elements, but there's almost invariably some other card in my hand that I'd prefer to play when the opportunity comes up. I hate it not because it's a bad card, but because it's so uncommon for events to work out so that I want to play it.


Mining conglomerate is at least in the top 20% of cards in the base set. You certainly don't need a brown world focus to use it well; you just need one brown world to get 2 + 1 cards (if you trade). The late game consume powers are also a big bonus.

Consumer markets, by contrast, requires two blue worlds to be useful and costs five cards, which is typically difficult to get from just blue worlds. It's still a good card, but it's not amazing. (I differ from a few people on this point.)
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Aphicha Phawapaphawin
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I love
- Consumer Market
- Mining Conglomerate
- Diversified Economy
- Spice World
- Lost Species Ark World
- New Economy

I hate
- Old Earth
- Plague World
- Destroyed World
- Terraformed World
- Merchant World
- Alien Robotic Factory

CM, MC, DE have multi power for consume x2 and draw while produce combo.
SP, LSAW are the words that grant you cards at the early game.
NE is a VP bomb.

OE is the starting world that the less chance to form the good start in the early game.
PW has 0 VP is very cruel. It usually uses for drawing 4 card in the early game once and it's consuming power can be substituted with something better.
DW, a turn lost with only 0 VP and 3 card drawn, what a shame.
TW is good only when it is the end game but it break the flow and combo.
MW, I prefer Export Duties + Deficit Spending that is much more smooth to play.
ARF is cost 6 production world.6 is too much for production world and it should be around 3 turns to play compare to LSAW that can probably completely play in a turn even in the early game.
 
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Peter Bakija
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Lancer4321 wrote:
Old Earth Worst. Starting. World. Ever.


Oh, I dunno. I mean, I don't play it much when it shows up in my hand, but it really benefits when you draw an opening hand and multiple starting worlds to choose from--if you have Old Earth as a choice, and then a couple cheap blue/brown production worlds in your opening hand, it is gonna work well; heck, like, a single cheap blue production world and then a cheap brown windfall, and you are going to do great. Play the brown windfall as your first move, sell the good for +1 as your second (possibly playing the blue production world on someone else's settle as well), and then start turning the P/C crank. Incredibly minimal set up (3 cards), very reliable, and good at getting cards in hand when you need them as well.

I mean, yeah, not super exciting. And requires a solid, convenient opening hand. But still a good plan.

Quote:
Research Labs Lemme get this straight, I can consume genes for a VP but I get an extra card for each alien tech that I produce? The two toughest suits to get into in the first place, and I need to be active in both to get the full benefit of this card? Riiight.


It's all about the +1 explore keeper. Those other two are just incidental bonus. I mean, yeah, it isn't going to be a good play *that* often. But if you have exploring heavy opponents, and then maybe either some green or yellow production (for the bonus), it'll pay off well. And as noted, in solitaire vs the Robot, it is, like, one of the best cards to get into play.
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John
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Stunna wrote:

Lancer4321 wrote:

Mining Conglomerate is the classic "meh" card. It offers a nice range of enhancements if I'm focusing on rare elements, but there's almost invariably some other card in my hand that I'd prefer to play when the opportunity comes up. I hate it not because it's a bad card, but because it's so uncommon for events to work out so that I want to play it.


Mining conglomerate is at least in the top 20% of cards in the base set. You certainly don't need a brown world focus to use it well; you just need one brown world to get 2 + 1 cards (if you trade). The late game consume powers are also a big bonus.

Wait Mining Conglomerate? I like that card too. Getting it down early and getting two bonus cards off a produce if nice. It also gives your opponent(s) a decision to make as to whether they play a brown world to stop you getting the bonus which is interesting.
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Jonathan C
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bakija wrote:

Research Labs
It's all about the +1 explore keeper. Those other two are just incidental bonus. I mean, yeah, it isn't going to be a good play *that* often. But if you have exploring heavy opponents, and then maybe either some green or yellow production (for the bonus), it'll pay off well. And as noted, in solitaire vs the Robot, it is, like, one of the best cards to get into play.


Since I almost always play with exploring heavy opponents, I try to place at least a card or two into my tableau that will provide some passive benefit. The only time I go nuts exploring is when playing Brink of War, and have Alien Departure Point or Pan-Galactic Hologrid in place. Then my opponents can pretty much count on me exploring every single phase until the end of the game, and their challenge is to beat the ridiculous prestige lead I will have by the end.

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Kenneth H
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I find it fairly hard to not take Rebel Freedom Fighters, whatever else is going on. I have good luck with them.

Old Earth is obviously the lame duck of the start worlds, though I won a game with it (in spite of it?) yesterday using Explore almost exclusively to build a couple of early sixes, and it actually worked, much to my surprise.

I am entranced by Uplift Code, and usually hang on to it to try to cram it in. Diversified Economy always gives me pause, though sadly it is rarely a good play.

Galactic Markets annoys me. They are obviously great, I guess I just don't like the fact they are usually just an easier version of Diversified Economy, Mining Conglomerate, and Consumer Markets for most boards.

Uplift Gene Breeders and Ravaged Uplift World annoy me, because it always feels like I have to play them. Happily, that's not necessarily the case.
 
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