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Subject: Fire and Ice rss

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Larry Schneider
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Today, in my quest to comprehend the rules for Mage Knight, I’m trying to wrap my head around special enemy attacks and resistance (physical, fire, and ice). Do I have this straight? (Pardon my attempt to think through this logically.)

Enemy attacks with Cold Fire: My Fire+Ice Block Points count fully toward blocking the attack. Any other Block Points must be halved. If I assign Damage Points to a Unit with Fire+Ice Resistance that’s equal to or less than the Unit’s Armor, I don’t have to put a Wound Card on the Unit.

Enemy attacks with Fire: My Ice Block Points count fully toward blocking the attack. Any other Block Points must be halved. If I assign Damage Points to a Unit with Ice Resistance that’s equal to or less than the Unit’s Armor, I don’t have to put a Wound Card on the Unit. (The opposite holds true in the case of an enemy attacking with Ice.)

Enemy offers Physical Resistance. My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Fire or Ice Attacks.”

Enemy offers Fire and Ice Resistance: My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Cold Fire Attacks. Also, I can’t use special combat effects originating from Red or Blue Cards or involving Red or Blue Mana.”

Enemy offers Ice and Physical Resistance: My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Fire Attacks. Also, I can’t use special combat effects originating from Blue Cards or involving Blue Mana.”

Enemy offers Ice Resistance only: My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Fire or Physical Attacks. Also, I can’t use special combat effects originating from Blue Cards or involving Blue Mana.”

And the same in the case of Fire and/or Physical Resistance, where Ice Attacks count fully, and I can’t use Red Cards or Red Mana.

Yeesh! I don't know why I'm having trouble getting this through my thick head. I'm just trying to avoid making mistakes when I play solo.

Thanks in advance for your tolerance! :)

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Al Villeneuve
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This looks correct to me.
 
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Alison Mandible
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I believe this is close to right, but not quite.

- You say that a unit with Ice Resistance is good against Fire attacks. I think that's wrong; Block has to be the 'opposite', but Fire Resistance protects a unit from Fire attacks, and likewise with Ice.

- If an enemy has Fire & Ice Resistance, then physical attacks are also efficient against it!

Also, you mention "Fire+Ice Block Points". I think this is called "Cold Fire Block" in the one or two places where it comes up (Altem Mages).
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Christian Shelton
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schnel wrote:
Enemy attacks with Cold Fire: My Fire+IceCold Fire Block Points count fully toward blocking the attack. Any other Block Points must be halved. If I assign Damage Points to a Unit with Fire+Ice Resistance that’s equal to or less than the Unit’s Armor, I don’t have to put a Wound Card on the Unit.

Correct.Correct, as edited above (perhaps this was your intention? -- see discussion below) [edit]

schenl wrote:
Enemy attacks with Fire: My Ice Block Points count fully toward blocking the attack. Any other Block Points must be halved. If I assign Damage Points to a Unit with IceFire Resistance that’s equal to or less than the Unit’s Armor, I don’t have to put a Wound Card on the Unit. (The opposite holds true in the case of an enemy attacking with Ice.)

Correct, with the edit I've made above


schenl wrote:
Enemy offers Physical Resistance. My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Fire or Ice Attacks.”

... or cold fire attacks (although I expect you meant that).


schenl wrote:
Enemy offers Fire and Ice Resistance: My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Cold Fire Attacks. Also, I can’t use special combat effects originating from Red or Blue Cards or involving Red or Blue Mana.”

Correct, except physical damage is also at full strength. [edit]


schenl wrote:
Enemy offers Ice and Physical Resistance: My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Fire Attacks. Also, I can’t use special combat effects originating from Blue Cards or involving Blue Mana.”

Cold fire attacks also are at full strength.

schenl wrote:
Enemy offers Ice Resistance only: My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Fire or Physical Attacks. Also, I can’t use special combat effects originating from Blue Cards or involving Blue Mana.”

Cold fire attacks also are at full strength.

schenl wrote:
And the same in the case of Fire and/or Physical Resistance, where Ice Attacks count fully, and I can’t use Red Cards or Red Mana.

Right.

schenl wrote:
Yeesh! I don't know why I'm having trouble getting this through my thick head. I'm just trying to avoid making mistakes when I play solo.

You seem to have it down fine. I wondered why this didn't mesh with me better, but I realized that the use of fire and ice icons on attack and on resistences were different.

To wit: An attack with an element means that you must have the opposing element (or be at 1/2 strength).
By contrast, a defense with an element means that you cannot have the same element (or be at 1/2 strength). Then there is a business with cold fire, but that's a separate issue.

If there were only two types of attack (fire and ice), this would be a little more obviously symmetric. With physical attacks being neither of these, the difference "same" and "opposing" aren't quite opposite sets.

It makes reasonable thematic sense, but until I pin-pointed this difference, I wondered why I too kept having to look this up.


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Jeff Engel

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cshelton wrote:
schnel wrote:
Enemy attacks with Cold Fire: My Fire+Ice Block Points count fully toward blocking the attack. Any other Block Points must be halved. If I assign Damage Points to a Unit with Fire+Ice Resistance that’s equal to or less than the Unit’s Armor, I don’t have to put a Wound Card on the Unit.

Correct.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question, but I don't think this is correct. Only Cold Fire blocks are fully efficient against Cold Fire attacks. Fire and Ice blocks separately are counted only for half. This is on page 8 of the manual.
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Christian Shelton
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leshrac55 wrote:
cshelton wrote:
schnel wrote:
Enemy attacks with Cold Fire: My Fire+Ice Block Points count fully toward blocking the attack. Any other Block Points must be halved. If I assign Damage Points to a Unit with Fire+Ice Resistance that’s equal to or less than the Unit’s Armor, I don’t have to put a Wound Card on the Unit.

Correct.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding the question, but I don't think this is correct. Only Cold Fire blocks are fully efficient against Cold Fire attacks. Fire and Ice blocks separately are counted only for half. This is on page 8 of the manual.


I agree. I thought "Fire+Ice" meant "Cold Fire" not "both Fire and Ice." But if the term "Fire+Ice Block Points" means "Fire Block Points" or "Ice Block Points" then you are right that this is incorrect.
 
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Larry Schneider
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Yeah, it's these elements that are tending to throw me. Especially the Cold Fire stuff.

I started my first actual game (First Scenario) tonight (solo). Man, my head feels like it's going to explode! I thought I had all the rules notated and making sense in my head, but I looked at my first hand and glazed over! Yeesh! My biggest struggle was wondering whether I should just use all the cards that aren't of any value to my right now to move farther or is it better to hold onto them for another hand. Yeah, I know. I just have to play a lot until some of this clicks. Though part of me wishes that one of you kind folks out there would come over and sit with me while I play and tell me what I'm doing wrong. ;)

My first roll of the mana dice produced a blue, a white, and a black. So I figured out quickly that I was down one die for the entire round because the black is worthless in daytime. And then I thought to myself, what good is the black at nighttime? I checked the book: "Black is the energy of darkness. It can only be used during Night, and it has no power by itself – instead, it amplifies the power of basic mana colors, allowing the most powerful spells to be cast."

What the heck does that mean? Is it like a wild card at Night? In other words, do I put a black mana die on my blue card so I can use the bottom half of the card? That just sounds like gold mana during the day!

Anyway, here's my original message text about the combat...hopefully, it's all correct now (corrections in upper case). I elaborated to make it more complete.

Enemy attacks with Cold Fire: My COLD FIRE Block Points count fully toward blocking the attack. Any other Block Points must be halved. If I assign Damage Points to a Unit with COLD FIRE Resistance that’s equal to or less than the Unit’s Armor, I don’t have to put a Wound Card on the Unit. Otherwise, I do.

Enemy attacks with Fire: My Ice Block Points count fully toward blocking the attack. Any other Block Points must be halved. If I assign Damage Points to a Unit with FIRE Resistance that’s equal to or less than the Unit’s Armor, I don’t have to put a Wound Card on the Unit. Otherwise, I do.

Enemy attacks with Ice: My Fire Block Points count fully toward blocking the attack. Any other Block Points must be halved. If I assign Damage Points to a Unit with ICE Resistance that’s equal to or less than the Unit’s Armor, I don’t have to put a Wound Card on the Unit. Otherwise, I do.

Enemy has no specific resistance. All my Attack Points count at 100%.

Enemy offers Physical Resistance. My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Fire Attacks, Ice Attacks, or Cold Fire Attacks.”

Enemy offers Fire Resistance AND Ice Resistance: My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Cold Fire Attacks. Also, I can’t use special combat effects originating from Red or Blue Cards or involving Red or Blue Mana.”

Enemy offers Ice Resistance and Physical Resistance: My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Fire Attacks OR COLD FIRE Attacks. Also, I can’t use special combat effects originating from Blue Cards or involving Blue Mana.”

Enemy offers Fire Resistance and Physical Resistance: My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Ice OR COLD FIRE Attacks. Also, I can’t use special combat effects originating from Red Cards or involving Red Mana.”

Enemy offers Ice Resistance only: My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Fire or Physical Attacks. (I PRESUME COLD FIRE ATTACKS MUST ALSO BE HALVED.) Also, I can’t use special combat effects originating from Blue Cards or involving Blue Mana.”

Enemy offers Fire Resistance only: My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Ice or Physical Attacks. (I PRESUME COLD FIRE ATTACKS MUST ALSO BE HALVED.) Also, I can’t use special combat effects originating from Red Cards or involving Red Mana.”




 
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schnel wrote:

What the heck does that mean? Is it like a wild card at Night? In other words, do I put a black mana die on my blue card so I can use the bottom half of the card? That just sounds like gold mana during the day!

The rules will be explained later in the walkthrough, but that's not what it does. Spells are a different kind of card than the action cards you start with. They always require a basic color of mana to be cast, and at night only you can use an additional black mana when casting it for a more powerful spell.
schnel wrote:

Enemy offers Fire Resistance AND Ice Resistance: My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Cold Fire Attacks. Also, I can’t use special combat effects originating from Red or Blue Cards or involving Red or Blue Mana.”

An enemy with Fire and Ice resistance halves Fire, Ice, and Cold Fire attacks. It does not halve Physical attacks.
schnel wrote:

Enemy offers Ice Resistance only: My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Fire or Physical Attacks. (I PRESUME COLD FIRE ATTACKS MUST ALSO BE HALVED.) Also, I can’t use special combat effects originating from Blue Cards or involving Blue Mana.”

Enemy offers Fire Resistance only: My Attack Points must first be halved, except in the case of Ice or Physical Attacks. (I PRESUME COLD FIRE ATTACKS MUST ALSO BE HALVED.) Also, I can’t use special combat effects originating from Red Cards or involving Red Mana.”

Cold Fire attacks are only halved if the enemy is resistant against BOTH Ice and Fire.

Actually I think all this stuff is in the reference section on the back of the main rulebook.
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Trevor K
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One quick note here is that if you're fighting an enemy with BOTH Fire and Ice resistance (i.e. the High Dragon, or Altem Guardians), *any* elemental attack (Fire, Ice, COLD FIRE) is halved.

In the case of the High Dragon, you'll note that it doesn't have physical resistance which means that physical damage is *not* reduced, so you would only need 9 physical damage to kill it. Coincidentally, both Goldyx and Arythea can get 9 ranged damage with their opening decks if they have the right cards/mana available.

The Altem Guardians (white elite monster) has every resistance, so in that case every damage type is halved (unless you remove the resistances with expose or some other effect).

In your last example, when a unit has only Ice or only Fire resistance, Cold Fire attacks *are* fully effective against the units - check the last page of the rulebook for a summary.

Hope that helps!
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Larry Schneider
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Thanks SunSplitter. I appreciate the correction and the explanation of Black Mana. I think I've got it! :)
 
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Larry Schneider
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And thank you Taerinshar!
 
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