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Subject: Rules question: First game tonight, read the rulebook rss

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David Bernier
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Hey all, i've read the rulebook and checked BGG for some answers about a couple of rules. Keeping things simple, here are my questions for my tonight's game:

Q1: Zombie combining: Do single Zombies become Double Zombies only during their last movement point or anytime during their movement?

Q2: Combat: What's the best approach, do you roll each Survivor separetely or follow RAW, i.e. roll all Ranged then All Melee? Does it make any significant difference in the difficulty of the game?

Q3: Taking Damage: In the rulebook example or Zombies rolling Double Zs for damage, for instance Z, Z, 3, Z, after applying the Double Zs and removing 2 Survivors there's still 8 Damage to apply. In the example it doesn't consider the Armor (squad has 3 armor) and say the Squad then lose 8 HP...I thought the Squad would only lose 5 HP (8 dmg - 3 Armor)...

I really can't wait to try this game and hope it'll go well, not to bash or anything but the rulebook is one of the worst I read. I'm used to bad rulebooks and always find a way to get things right so i'm not too afraid that tonight's gonna go well.

Thanks for your help!

 
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Jeff Gracia
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Hi David,

Q1: They combined at any point they possibly could - zombies are friendly.

Q2: I personally roll all together, though I have other people who roll seaperately. It depends on player choice. The odds are still the same in either case. It just feels better to roll a fist full of dice.

Q3: I belive there is an error it that part of the rulebook. Sounds like your considering armor correctly.

You can checkout a revised version of the rulebook we are in the process of working on up on our website:

http://www.greenbriergames.com/gbg/index.php/games/zpocalyps...

Thanks,
Jeff
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David Bernier
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Thanks Jeff!
I played a 2-player game yesterday, 4 days...we died on the fourth.

3rd day was skipped due to a "Something's happening" card that asked us to still place a tile and zombies but skip to Day 4. So you can imagine how much zombies there was on the board during phase 4 of Day 4...

Which brings me 1 question: We had to place 7 Zombies each during Phase 3 of Day 4 but only had 11 Zombies remainng...do you have to find replacements or you are limited to the number of of minis provided with the game?


After some games I'm still not sure I like it. I don't hate the game that's for sure but can't say I like it. But I can see the time and passion put into Zpoc from you and your team and that's cool.

Anyways, thanks for your answers Jeff!

Best regards

 
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Jeff Gracia
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Hi David,

It is possible to run out zombies is certain cases, I cant recall where it is listed but in your case you just put down all the zombies you can.

No worries about your comment on the game. Zpocalypse was my first game, I sunk a ton of time into it, but there are some flaws, heck I'll admit it ;p We are working on polishing up the rules for a second edition, though that is quite a ways a way.

Thanks,
Jeff
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David Bernier
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I still think it's a game to try. A true gamer should try Zpocalypse more than once. You got some really cool mechanics in your game and I a 2nd edition rulebook would be a great start towards a better product.

Personally it's one of more unique Zombie games out there and I can see you are still working on improving it and for that I give you the most sincere high five of the history of high fives

When we played yeaterday we tried to verbalize what we thought was missing but couldn't lol...pretty weird. Everything seems to be there but something still feels off. I'll take advantage of the moment to try listing what I like and dislike

The Good

- The Art: awesome and immersive art, more "mature" and gritty than most other zombie games.
- Components are great: quality components are a must when I buy games and it is there. The cards could use better cardstock but overall everything is great. Player boards are damn awesome. Same with the dice.
- Difficulty level of the game: I love games that are hard to beat and this one offers a gradating yet rewarding challenge.

The Less Good

- Rules!!!: But looks like you're working on that and it's great news. I'd love to see more fluid and structured rules/mechanics while keeping the core ideas intact. Make each Phase more "alive" and involving. Maybe it's the only thing that isn't "quite right" about Zpoc and seems to be the less expensive significant change that can be applied to the game for now.

Suggestions

- Knowing that feeding your Survivors is crucial in your survival...and after experiencing 3 days of failed rolls during the Scavenge phase yesterday (even with a Smarts of 3...) i'd love to get the chance to still use my Survivors even if I didn't feed them.
IDEA: The first day that a Survivor isn't fed can still be used during Phase 4, but will lose 1 action per turn. Additionally he can't be used to Fortify during Phase 3. If the Survivor isn't fed for a second straight day, he returns to the bunker as per the current rules.
- Make Zmergency available in stores!!!: I'd love more variety though and since Zmergency can't be found anywhere (seems to be the best expansion that offers more for the base game) i'll have to wait on that. I'd really love to get Zmergency for more tiles, cards, tokens, etc.

Can't think of anything else for now but i'll give the game another shot in the near future. Maybe try some house rules of our own to change what we feel isn't fitting...or just play the game as is
 
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Jeff Gracia
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Hi David,

High five right back at you.

Thanks for the feedback its funny you mention the food thing, as Zach was posting just that the other day in a separate thread. He had a few ideas very similar to yours not sure if you saw it.

We really want to take Zpoc to that next level with the right polish. Thus I really appreciate your feedback.

If you do go with some house rules such as the food let me know. As I always like to record any good playtests!

Again thank you so much for participating in the forums. Love seeing the ideas!

~Jeff
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David Bernier
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sincere8868 wrote:
Hi David,

High five right back at you.

Thanks for the feedback its funny you mention the food thing, as Zach was posting just that the other day in a separate thread. He had a few ideas very similar to yours not sure if you saw it.

We really want to take Zpoc to that next level with the right polish. Thus I really appreciate your feedback.

If you do go with some house rules such as the food let me know. As I always like to record any good playtests!

Again thank you so much for participating in the forums. Love seeing the ideas!

~Jeff


Just saw Zee's post and he has some really cool ideas (disease from stepping in rad/bio spots, taking an action to feed a Survivor when you find food in Phase 4, etc).

There's some stuff i'll add in my next session and can't wait to see how it turns out.
 
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Derek VDG
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My wife and I love this game, and enjoy it more than Zombicide (which is a fine game). Zpoc just has so much more thought required to play it.

The one difficulty we really find is the reliance on Smarts. Getting food is critical right now, as mentioned, to be able to keep survivors in your group. Being able to get food relies heavily on the scavenging phase (and card draw too). If you were unlucky enough to draw two starting characters with a 1 smarts (we've had that happen several times), then you're really up a creek, as it is highly unlikely you'll succeed. Then, the loss of survivors from your party has drastic effects on your party. Loss of carrying capacity is huge, as is loss of defense dice.

So, I'd agree that a less harsh penalty for lack of food is needed, or else an increase in the availability of food, or a different mechanism for acquiring food. Personally, I'd say that you don't "lose" any character that hasn't eaten for a day. I'd favor something like those survivors simply only succeed on Z's instead of their normal roll, reflecting their weakened state. I'd even say a loss of max health would be ok too. Make some "Hungry Markers" to mark which survivors have eaten or not, for example. We already do something similar for eating radioactive food.
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Shawn Macleod
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Hungry markers?!?!? I love it!!! That idea really opens up the possibility of incorporating something easy to integrate.
 
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zee Parks
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dvang wrote:
My wife and I love this game, and enjoy it more than Zombicide (which is a fine game). Zpoc just has so much more thought required to play it.

The one difficulty we really find is the reliance on Smarts. Getting food is critical right now, as mentioned, to be able to keep survivors in your group. Being able to get food relies heavily on the scavenging phase (and card draw too). If you were unlucky enough to draw two starting characters with a 1 smarts (we've had that happen several times), then you're really up a creek, as it is highly unlikely you'll succeed. Then, the loss of survivors from your party has drastic effects on your party. Loss of carrying capacity is huge, as is loss of defense dice.

So, I'd agree that a less harsh penalty for lack of food is needed, or else an increase in the availability of food, or a different mechanism for acquiring food. Personally, I'd say that you don't "lose" any character that hasn't eaten for a day. I'd favor something like those survivors simply only succeed on Z's instead of their normal roll, reflecting their weakened state. I'd even say a loss of max health would be ok too. Make some "Hungry Markers" to mark which survivors have eaten or not, for example. We already do something similar for eating radioactive food.


Following Shawn's previous post,s I like the idea of somehow increasing ones smarts via custom daily goals as one method of mitigating the lack of smart sin a poorly drawn squad.

At current the status condition of "hungry" is denoted by turning yoru survivor to the side. Though I can see this being confusing with the determining who has used their daily special ability as that also is denoted by turning the card to the side. I'm not a huge fan of tokens, but do see their need.

If anyone feels up for doing a tiche of research on the most easily available sticker circular sticker template(labels) I could look into making a set of print and play token booster packs, which could be applied to pennies or dimes as hunger, bio, rad, zmergency search tokens for those interested in play testing some new token mechanics.

ideally looking for solutions that don't require new assets to play with, but I'm always open to novel suggestions for new mechanics that can ease game play, make it more enjoyable/thematically accurate.
 
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David Bernier
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Or maybe a simple score track revision to add +1 Smarts with a third slot...or every 10 VPs...i'll try that.
 
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zee Parks
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macleodsr wrote:
Hungry markers?!?!? I love it!!! That idea really opens up the possibility of incorporating something easy to integrate.


thoughts on what a hungry marker might look like?
 
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Duncan McEwen
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Since we are talking feedback and improvements here...

First off, I don't have the game, but want it. So I have never played it. Jeff tried to sell me on it at GenCon and I was interested (especially with the lightsaber) but just too much for the budget right now.

One constant complaint, and the card that seems to kill the most games and reviews is the one that causes the zombies to accumulate and not have combat for a night. I have read a lot of reviews where people drew this card and it just ended the game for them. If this card remains in the game, it probably needs to be changed some. (Maybe fight half the zombies on the first night and the other half get added to the second night?)

Another issue a lot of people talk about is the daily goals. A lot of them are "screw you" goals which is great if you are doing competitive play, but horrible if you want to be cooperative and try and beat the game. Maybe there needs to be a new second set of daily goals that are all cooperative based.

On the issue of dice rolling, I think rolling to each survivor give more tactical choices. The rules do a nice job with letting the handful of dice kill multiple zombies adjacent, but sometimes I want to target more groups specifically. I would keep the "kill target and adjacent extras" but use individual character attacks.

Finally, I think the noise rules in Zombicide are awesome and something similar would be good for this game. Just a thought.

I really think Zpocalypse is cool, and I keep my eyes out for a copy within my means. I think a little tinkering could make the game even better.
Thanks,
Duncan
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Derek VDG
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zeeparkes wrote:
macleodsr wrote:
Hungry markers?!?!? I love it!!! That idea really opens up the possibility of incorporating something easy to integrate.


thoughts on what a hungry marker might look like?


A picture of empty/discarded cans/cartons maybe?
 
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Derek VDG
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Rhezuss wrote:
Or maybe a simple score track revision to add +1 Smarts with a third slot...or every 10 VPs...i'll try that.


As a thought:

You'd probably want some tokens to help keep track, but what about simply having Smarts cost X number of points (2?) to gain a +1 for smarts. Potentially, you could do the same for speed too if you wanted.

This will allow more flexibility for the XP gain choices, rather than just +1 to either melee or ranged. A player would be sacrificing early combat ability to beef up their movement or smarts, which could be dangerous, but it gives them more diverse choices in "leveling" their squad.

Additionally, it also extends the benefits of the XP/Victory track by increasing. My wife and I played a game where we lasted into the 4th day, and after the 3rd day the track was unnecessary because we had both maxed out both our melee and ranged skills. Being able to continue using the gained points to increase move or smarts, and having the choice earlier in the game, would have been good.
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Donald Papp
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Excited to play a co-op game where the zombies/bad guys don't require a player to play as them, but dang this rule book is frustrating. Here is my big road block:

Either I completely missed it (and continue to miss it) or it's just not where I'm looking: but how many move points do zombies get?

One of the scenarios says they get 3. The rest say nothing on the subject.

Page 18 movement example says "For the purposes of this example zombies move 4 squares" (it being an example only is emphasized.)

So how many move points do zombies get 'standard' (e.g. unless some other rule says different)? Is it 4, and the "this is only for the purposes of this example" wording on pg 18 is just unfortunate?



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David Bernier
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Mister Sinewave wrote:
Excited to play a co-op game where the zombies/bad guys don't require a player to play as them, but dang this rule book is frustrating. Here is my big road block:

Either I completely missed it (and continue to miss it) or it's just not where I'm looking: but how many move points do zombies get?

One of the scenarios says they get 3. The rest say nothing on the subject.

Page 18 movement example says "For the purposes of this example zombies move 4 squares" (it being an example only is emphasized.)

So how many move points do zombies get 'standard' (e.g. unless some other rule says different)? Is it 4, and the "this is only for the purposes of this example" wording on pg 18 is just unfortunate?





The ZS movement points are listed on the "Something's happening" cards. 4 spots are listed at the bottom of the card. Each representing a day, from Day 1 to Day 4.
 
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Donald Papp
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Oh ho, so they are! Thanks for pointing it out to me!

I have been bitten more than once trying to get something shown in the rules straight in my head without really realizing that I didn't have all the info yet. gulp
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David Bernier
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You'll see that the rule book is not the best book written in history of rule books
 
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Donald Papp
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I get the feeling that everyone plays Zpocalypse with house rules (whether they realize it or not)
 
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Brett Thomason
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Rhezuss wrote:


Q3: Taking Damage: In the rulebook example or Zombies rolling Double Zs for damage, for instance Z, Z, 3, Z, after applying the Double Zs and removing 2 Survivors there's still 8 Damage to apply. In the example it doesn't consider the Armor (squad has 3 armor) and say the Squad then lose 8 HP...I thought the Squad would only lose 5 HP (8 dmg - 3 Armor)...



Wouldn't a Z and a 3 add up to 9 not 8?
 
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David Bernier
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LOL yeah my bad...
 
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