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Ascension: Darkness Unleashed» Forums » General

Subject: So does this rein in the swingy quality of Vigil at all? rss

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-=::) Dante (::=-
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Have heard countless comments about RoV being the most swingy of all the sets with some speculating on whether Darkness might remedy that to some degree.

Would love to hear thoughts on that specifically from those that have played the two together.

Wondering if at this point if people feel that Storm of Souls simply rewards skillful play a bit more consistently than the later sets.
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Chef D
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Re: So does this reign in the swingy quality of Vigil at all?
I played 2 games over the weekend and both were close. The first was 75 to 71 and the second was something similar. There were less than a 10 point spread in each game. I still feel it is a bit swingy. The transform cards are nice to have though and can mitigate it a bit. I still like Storm of Souls as the best stand alone set of all the ones released. Rise of the Vigil has too much calculation time and turns can sometimes drag on. The beauty of the game is its speed and it seems to be slowing down the more sets come out.
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Mike Beiter
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Re: So does this reign in the swingy quality of Vigil at all?
Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by "swingy"?
 
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W. Eric Martin
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Re: So does this reign in the swingy quality of Vigil at all?
MajaiofDreams wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by "swingy"?

Sometimes in the early rounds of the Rise of Vigil set, three energy cards will end up under a card that costs only 1, and the player who buys that gets a huge jump on energy, which might then set off the Energize threshold of certain cards, which might then give them a super turn that lets them buy something awesome and they just continue to rock out ahead of the other players. This doesn't happen every game, but I've seen it happen a few times, including one game in which a player scored 40+ honor on a single turn to end the game and trounce everyone as no one else even had 40 points period.

And I haven't played Darkness Unleashed yet, so I can't comment on how it impacts the game.
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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Re: So does this reign in the swingy quality of Vigil at all?
MajaiofDreams wrote:
Forgive my ignorance, but what do you mean by "swingy"?


Mr. Martin nailed it.

To define it in terms non-specifid to Ascension:

"Swingy" refers to the potential for very large swings in scores (high/low) from game to game, generally due to a random element rather than player skill.
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Mike Beiter
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Re: So does this reign in the swingy quality of Vigil at all?
Thanks. I share your concern then. I've only played with RoV twice but each time one of us had exactly that happen. They gained all the energy shards and just dominated. Perhaps restricting it to only one energy shard allowed under each card to help minimize the swingyness?
 
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W. Eric Martin
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Re: So does this reign in the swingy quality of Vigil at all?
MajaiofDreams wrote:
Thanks. I share your concern then. I've only played with RoV twice but each time one of us had exactly that happen. They gained all the energy shards and just dominated. Perhaps restricting it to only one energy shard allowed under each card to help minimize the swingyness?

I think for some the swinginess is a feature, not a bug, but if everyone at your table prefers a game with a narrower band of swinginess, then go for it. (I tend to like high variability in games, so I'm okay with some games going off the rails.)
 
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Ben Boersma
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Re: So does this reign in the swingy quality of Vigil at all?
We haven't enjoyed Rise of Vigil due to the swingy nature of the game. In all our games whoever had the most energies won by a landslide. Games also took longer.

We enjoy the other iterations of Ascension, but RoV is one we leave on the shelf now. I would be interested to find out if Darkness Unleashed does anything at all to mitigate the swingy nature or speeds up the game at all.
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KevOne
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Re: So does this reign in the swingy quality of Vigil at all?
Boromir_and_Kermit wrote:
We haven't enjoyed Rise of Vigil due to the swingy nature of the game. In all our games whoever had the most energies won by a landslide. Games also took longer.

We enjoy the other iterations of Ascension, but RoV is one we leave on the shelf now. I would be interested to find out if Darkness Unleashed does anything at all to mitigate the swingy nature or speeds up the game at all.


http://ascensiongame.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12699
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Ben Boersma
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Re: So does this reign in the swingy quality of Vigil at all?
Baoaa wrote:
Boromir_and_Kermit wrote:
We haven't enjoyed Rise of Vigil due to the swingy nature of the game. In all our games whoever had the most energies won by a landslide. Games also took longer.

We enjoy the other iterations of Ascension, but RoV is one we leave on the shelf now. I would be interested to find out if Darkness Unleashed does anything at all to mitigate the swingy nature or speeds up the game at all.


http://ascensiongame.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12699


Thanks Kevin. Sounds like it does some things to help which is good. Still sounds like the weakest of the blocks so far though.
 
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Runcible Spoon
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Re: So does this reign in the swingy quality of Vigil at all?
Boromir_and_Kermit wrote:
Sounds like it does some things to help which is good. Still sounds like the weakest of the blocks so far though.


Matters of taste in games is of course very subjective...

ROV is the one I want to take off the shelf right now and I think is the strongest of the blocks so far.

I think above all, I just like having more Ascension to play
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Grace P.
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Re: So does this reign in the swingy quality of Vigil at all?
It seems that although games can be rather close, DU still has the potential for some major swinginess. My husband and I just played two games with ROV+DU. In the first, he beat me 72 to 68. In the second, I beat him 109 to 46, which is the biggest win of our ROV plays so far.

After tonight's second game, we briefly discussed the idea of a shard deck, like the mystics and heavy infantry, in which you could purchase a shard (perhaps for a higher cost, say 4 money) so that you wouldn't get starved out of energy.
 
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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Re: So does this reign in the swingy quality of Vigil at all?
Sounds like much of the swingy quality is being attributed to RoV primarily.

Would DU possibly pair with SoS in an interesting and entertaining way without having as big a swing factor? Or is most of what makes DU exciting dampened it's separated from RoV.
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Umer Ikram
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Re: So does this reign in the swingy quality of Vigil at all?
Simple answer: yes it does

Long answer:

RoV + DU plays better than RoV alone. Biggest reason is the addition of 30 extra energy cards (20 Energy Shards + 10 Dark Energy Shards). This enables all players to have almost equal amount of energy, and in turn get more combos into play. Dark Energy Shards also let everyone discard from their discard pile, hence thinning the deck. Also, DU has a few more cards that let you banish cards from your hand or discard pile. This makes the game go faster overall, and keeps the center row very dynamic. This in turn, forces you to keep thinking about your strategy to build your deck.

Will there be crazy swingy games?
Probably yes, but very rarely. There have been one game so far where my friend scored more than 52 Honor in one turn. But again, that's just happened only once. Usually the scores are very close, and only differ by 10 or so Honor between the winner and second place.

How can I avoid energy piling up under one card? I hate how one person gets a stack of energy that's been piling up due to banishes in the center row.
When my group started playing, we assumed that the energy under a card "belongs" to that card. So if the card goes in your deck, so does the energy, and if the card goes in the void due to banishing from the center row, then the energy under it also goes into the void. I later checked and found out that this is not the official ruling, but after discussing with my gaming group, we've decided to uphold the original rule that we've been following so far. This has led to very tactical gameplay, and surprisingly increased player interaction, since sometimes you banish a card just to deprive others of the energy under it.

My entire group loves Rov + DU more than CotG + SoS that we usually play.

Hopefully this was helpful in answering your question
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It wasn't a rock
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Re: So does this reign in the swingy quality of Vigil at all?
reverseswing wrote:
Will there be crazy swingy games?
Probably yes, but very rarely.

Swingy? Maybe not, but:

My gaming group has stopped playing RoV/DU altogether -- and I stopped recording plays on here -- because nearly every game is a tedious runaway victory. And that's after house-rule limiting the number of shards under a center row card to 4 and removing "Tablet of the Dreamer" from the deck.

In one session, I won three times in a row (three player) by more than 100 points, and it wasn't fun for anyone. I didn't feel I earned the wins, just got lucky on the first few turns, and my opponents never felt like they had a chance, ever.

So we moved to games we can actually enjoy.
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MushroomHunter
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I also had this occurrence a couple times while playing RoV (3+ shards under a low-cost Hero on "the flop"). I think it might help for there to be some kind of house rule to mitigate this. Perhaps allowing at most 2 shards under a card on the flop. Maybe fold the extra shards discarded this was back into the main deck.
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