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The Witches: A Discworld Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Black Aliss rss

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Alexander Berndt
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A friend and I had a play through and he managed to get every Black Aliss tile. Aside from him losing a lot of points there were no additional rules regarding what happens when you run out of the tiles.
 
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James Fung
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When you run out of Black Aliss tiles, there are rules governing who you take them from. I've lost the link to the rules, but if I remember correctly, ignoring yourself, take them from the person who has the most Black Aliss tiles. So in a 2-player game, you're taking them from the other player, giving them a point while losing a point yourself. This is meant to throw a wrench in the cooperative game where only one player wins.
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Robert Stewart
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fusag wrote:
When you run out of Black Aliss tiles, there are rules governing who you take them from. I've lost the link to the rules, but if I remember correctly, ignoring yourself, take them from the person who has the most Black Aliss tiles. So in a 2-player game, you're taking them from the other player, giving them a point while losing a point yourself. This is meant to throw a wrench in the cooperative game where only one player wins.


There are Cackle counters which get handed out for using magic and failing to solve problems and when those run out, you take them from the player with most unless that's you, in which case you get Black Aliss counters instead.

I can't find anything in the rules about what happens if Black Aliss counters run out. Standard options would be to use a makeshift replacement or to do nothing - the rules don't justify taking them off someone else. My instinct would be to improvise a replacement - though it seems like something would be going wrong to run out...

***

If you're playing the solo/co-op variant, then there is a limit to the supply of Black Aliss counters, and if they run out, you lose when you should draw one but can't...
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GenĂ­s Morera
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There is no official response?
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Christopher Dearlove
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It is in the rules somewhere - I recalled reading it when I asked Martin who answered. However my copy is still in shrink., so I haven't got an exact reference to hand.

You all lose. Similarly to having too many Elves.
 
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Robert Stewart
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Dearlove wrote:
It is in the rules somewhere - I recalled reading it when I asked Martin who answered. However my copy is still in shrink., so I haven't got an exact reference to hand.

You all lose. Similarly to having too many Elves.


Are you sure you're not thinking of the Crisis counters or the co-operative variant?

Page 9 of the rules says:

Quote:
The game will end immediately if it is necessary to place a Crisis counter and none is available or if there are three or more Elven tiles (which includes[...]) face-up at the end of a player's turn. In both of these two cases, all players automatically lose.

Otherwise, the game will end after the last Problem tile has been placed and the active player has finished his or her turn.


On page 12, for the co-operative variant, it adds the additional rule that running out of Black Aliss counters also ends the game with everyone losing.

It also adds a rule that if, at the end of the game, there are 4 or more hard problems unsolved, everybody loses.


On the other hand, I stand by my original reaction: if you end up handing out all the Black Aliss counters (in the standard game) then you've gone wrong somewhere...
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James Fung
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Now that I've received my game, I concur with Robert. Black Aliss is not exchanged between players (my above post was wrong). In the cooperative game, if someone is supposed to gain a Black Aliss but you're out, you all lose.
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Christopher Dearlove
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rmsgrey wrote:
Dearlove wrote:
It is in the rules somewhere - I recalled reading it when I asked Martin who answered. However my copy is still in shrink., so I haven't got an exact reference to hand.

You all lose. Similarly to having too many Elves.


Are you sure you're not thinking of the Crisis counters or the co-operative variant?

Page 9 of the rules says:

Quote:
The game will end immediately if it is necessary to place a Crisis counter and none is available or if there are three or more Elven tiles (which includes[...]) face-up at the end of a player's turn. In both of these two cases, all players automatically lose.

Otherwise, the game will end after the last Problem tile has been placed and the active player has finished his or her turn.


On page 12, for the co-operative variant, it adds the additional rule that running out of Black Aliss counters also ends the game with everyone losing.

It also adds a rule that if, at the end of the game, there are 4 or more hard problems unsolved, everybody loses.


On the other hand, I stand by my original reaction: if you end up handing out all the Black Aliss counters (in the standard game) then you've gone wrong somewhere...


OK. As said, I recall reading it, but only in the cooperative version is quite possible.

Agree with your last point on going wrong.

But (as I'm not opening at this the of night) what's the Elves all lose case? General rule or cooperative only?

I could therefore imagine three possibilities. Create more. You all lose (even competitively). You end the game and score. As it shouldn't happen, you can probably pick your own.

(Well, not quite. I do know of some players who were playing - I need to check the rules - that four Elves equals all lose even competitively. So having decided he, maybe not alone, wasn't going to win, he, and maybe others, just buzzed around on broomsticks revealing all the hard problems to force an all lose which he preferred to losing. Some games are not immune to their players.)


 
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Robert Stewart
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Dearlove wrote:
(Well, not quite. I do know of some players who were playing - I need to check the rules - that four Elves equals all lose even competitively. So having decided he, maybe not alone, wasn't going to win, he, and maybe others, just buzzed around on broomsticks revealing all the hard problems to force an all lose which he preferred to losing. Some games are not immune to their players.)


Yeah, if there are three Elvish problems face up at the end of anyone's turn, everybody loses, whether you're playing co-op or competing. You could house-rule that some people are bigger losers than others in that situation.
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Michal Starek
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toolbum wrote:
A friend and I had a play through and he managed to get every Black Aliss tile. Aside from him losing a lot of points there were no additional rules regarding what happens when you run out of the tiles.


I think in competetive variant, you should make a replacement to keep track of negative score, pretty much like running out of beggars in Agricola. The cards are so negative to gain, that the designer naively thought making 12 of them (or 5 in case of Agricola beggars) would be enough... :-D
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Nico Pierik
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I would like to reply to the general 'Black Aliss' subject here. Since I played this game two times last weekend. And in the cooperative game, when you just ignore the points if feels there is absolutely no incentive to reduce Cackle counters to prevent someone going Black Aliss.

So next time I play this game I will test these two house-rule for Black Aliss in the cooperative game:
1) If you get an Black Aliss, you have gone mad. Mad witches do fly broomsticks, but not that great. So the first rule: If you have a Black Aliss, you can only fly your broomstick 3 squares and only over the connected roads, because you need to see where you are going.
2) For each -1 on each Black Aliss tile, you get -1 penalty on solving a problem.
 
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Nico Pierik
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Well, now that I played this game a third time. I noticed that even with these additional rules in the co-op, the 100% co-op gets a bit tedious for me.

I think it really was designed to be a competitive game, with some dependency elements added to it. So you would keep on having to make the choice to either help others and yourself (in this case you also lose a little), or just yourself. So for me, this game as a co-op is a no go.
 
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