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Subject: Overpowered Bonus Card? rss

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Harold Coleman
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I've played Yedo 3 times now and won my first game yesterday, but I consider it a fairly tainted win due to an over-powered purple Bonus Card. Let me explain. Glancing through the deck, most of the bonuses are from 2 to 6 points, but there are exceptions:
- 1 per Geisha and 1 per annex, so 7 points are possible
- 7 points for completing at least one of each of the 4 color missions, which is rather easy to accomplish
- 10 points if you have completed only Missions of one color OR category, which is nearly impossible to do unless you draw this card near the start of the game and plan for it
Then there is:
- 1 VP for every 4 Mon that you own

I drew this card around turn 4 and immediately saw that if I completed a LOT of easy green and yellow missions that I could hoard mon and rack up a ton of bonus points. I did just that and ended the game with 52 Mon for 13 prestige points to go with my 4 points (1 for every green mission completed) to pull away from a tie heading to the end phase. And that was after hitting the Harbor District about 4-5 times for 3 points each. I think I completed 12 missions, including one of each color and type. One Black Mission alone rewarded me with 4 prestige and 35 Mon, itself nearly 9 prestige points.

Given that the maximum points for any other bonus card is reasonably 7, does anyone other than me think that this card is too powerful?
 
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Pandasaurus Games
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Hey Harold (long time no see actually!)

It can be a powerful card if you are able to acquire a lot of Mon, however that is easier said than done (there is a thread running around here complaining that there isn't enough Mon in the game) as many mission cards require you to expend a lot of Mon to complete them.

A mon-heavy strategy could be fairly risky as it could mean you are hording mon/avoiding expensive missions instead of completing missions which could lead to your downfall. Where something like the 7 points for a mission card of every color could be easier to hit without altering your strategy much at all.

You also have to spend Mon to complete the mission cards (both literally in the case of the card in question which requires you to spend 5 mon), but in acquiring the goods you need to complete it.

So while that card pays out a net of 30 mon (7 points at the games end), you would have to not spend any of that acquired Mon by the games end to realize those points. Where some of the 7 point cards don't have an opportunity cost to them.

I'll let Thomas and Wolf weigh in here for sure, but if you still feel it's overpowered (I haven't found it to be so) you could always remove it from the game and use the rest of the bonus cards. Thomas and Wolf seem to be pretty big on people playing the game however the prefer it.
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Harold Coleman
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Thanks for weighing in, Nathan, and great to hear from you! I see your point, but I was generally still doing the normal stuff in the game. i.e. winning an auction each turn (especially if it was an annex I didn't have or a geisha - 2 VPs for 5-7 mon is better than 2 for 8), hitting the Harbor (3 VPs for 9 mon) and generally completing missions that required not much more than having disciples in the correct district(s). Hope to keep getting some feedback on this.
 
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Mark Nicosia
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another option... because I'm a huge proponent of tweaking games to one's liking ... is to just slightly adjust the card if you and the people you play with think it is overpowered. A small sticker and a Sharpie could make it 1 VP for every 5 mon.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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It also was worth a ton of points in the one game I played, and player of said card won the game. Only one data point, but I'll be keeping an eye on that. Right now my feeling is that it wouldn't take a lot of convincing for me to agree to cap the max at 7vp or change the rate to 1vp/$5.
 
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Thomas Vande Ginste
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We had this discussion too. There was also the propostion to have a max amount of mon. But still it's , as Nathan says , a dangerous way of playing. There are some things that can go wrong...

- Other players can earn more points with the expensive black missions. And if they can manege to put nice missions together, they can hop from the one high VP mission to another.

- There's the samurai eventcard that makes you loose half of your mon. ( if you don't own a blessing)....that can mean your end.

- Your strategy is very visible... so others can think that you might win and team up against you.

- Think maybe if you tweak the card, there should be a difference between the amount of players. This bonuscard is way easyer in a two player game than in a 5 player game. With two, you have more acces to green and Yellow missions, which offer mon. In a 5 player game, you have to be happy if you get 2 greens, than some yellows, and than you are forced to , go to hte harder missions, which require more investement. So it's much harder to try to earn mon the easy way.

- The fact that you have that bonuscard early in the game is also important. But that's also a consequence on how you play. So it's part of your strategy to get a bonus card early in the game. Which in this case pays off and gets rewarded. Lot's of people forget about the bonuscards, or go for them later in the game, and than this card is much less worth.

So the situation you discribe is the most positive way to get the card due to your good choosen strategy, and the luck the you drew it at that right time. BUt beware, it can explode in your face .



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Curt Carpenter
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The Wasp wrote:
- Other players can earn more points with the expensive black missions. And if they can manege to put nice missions together, they can hop from the one high VP mission to another.

- Your strategy is very visible... so others can think that you might win and team up against you.

More visible than the "lots of vp on the score track from black missions" you just put forth as an alternative???

The Wasp wrote:
- Think maybe if you tweak the card, there should be a difference between the amount of players. This bonuscard is way easyer in a two player game than in a 5 player game. With two, you have more acces to green and Yellow missions, which offer mon. In a 5 player game, you have to be happy if you get 2 greens, than some yellows, and than you are forced to , go to hte harder missions, which require more investement. So it's much harder to try to earn mon the easy way.

Another alternative would be to scale the number of available mission cards based on the number of players. That might have merit irrespective of the card in question. Unless folks like the availability of mission cards to depend on the number of players.

The Wasp wrote:
- The fact that you have that bonuscard early in the game is also important. But that's also a consequence on how you play. So it's part of your strategy to get a bonus card early in the game. Which in this case pays off and gets rewarded. Lot's of people forget about the bonuscards, or go for them later in the game, and than this card is much less worth.

But sometimes players get that as their starting bonus card, which is what happened in our game, and as I said, that player won. Of course the rest of us didn't even know about that card, but the targeting opportunities are fairly limited.

The Wasp wrote:
So the situation you discribe is the most positive way to get the card due to your good choosen strategy, and the luck the you drew it at that right time. BUt beware, it can explode in your face .

I don't see how it can explode in your face. At worst it's worth zero points, which is the likely outcome of that card for having all completed missions in one color unless its drawn at the beginning and special effort is paid to that, which is both extremely transparent and extraordinarily difficult, especially in a 4-5p game.

It's not a big deal though.
 
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Thomas Vande Ginste
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Altering number of missions is not a bad idea either. It's up to you and your playing group.

Explode in your face: if you do everything for mon, and than loose half of it, in the end ( event card )... than you will eat your bonus card .

I saw players going for that card. In the first 5/6 rounds everything went good, but than they got stuck. And by the moment they realised that they had rto spend some mon to do some more missions to boost their game, they were dead already...

So maybe you both played also very well with the opportunity you had .

Anyway, I can imagine that in a two player/ 3 player game and you pull it as a starter card... It can be a bit strong.

So as we told before: pimp the game the way you get a great time! That's what games are for .
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Harald Torvatn
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hgcoleman wrote:
I've played Yedo 3 times now and won my first game yesterday, but I consider it a fairly tainted win due to an over-powered purple Bonus Card. Let me explain. Glancing through the deck, most of the bonuses are from 2 to 6 points, but there are exceptions:
- 1 per Geisha and 1 per annex, so 7 points are possible
- 7 points for completing at least one of each of the 4 color missions, which is rather easy to accomplish
- 10 points if you have completed only Missions of one color OR category, which is nearly impossible to do unless you draw this card near the start of the game and plan for it
Then there is:
- 1 VP for every 4 Mon that you own

I drew this card around turn 4 and immediately saw that if I completed a LOT of easy green and yellow missions that I could hoard mon and rack up a ton of bonus points. I did just that and ended the game with 52 Mon for 13 prestige points to go with my 4 points (1 for every green mission completed) to pull away from a tie heading to the end phase. And that was after hitting the Harbor District about 4-5 times for 3 points each. I think I completed 12 missions, including one of each color and type. One Black Mission alone rewarded me with 4 prestige and 35 Mon, itself nearly 9 prestige points.

Given that the maximum points for any other bonus card is reasonably 7, does anyone other than me think that this card is too powerful?


I do not agree that this card is to powerful.

To get a lot of mon, you must save a lot of mon, which could otherwise be invested in whatever you need to complete more misions.

Also, there are other ways to convert mon to points. In the harbor, you get 3 ponts for 9 mon, actually a better excange rate than saving the mon for that card. If you have that card you can ignore going to the harbor, but that only make it easier for the other players to go there.

Another, even more efficient way to convert mon to points is to win auctions for geishas and anexes. Doing this gives you 2 points for 5 mon.

As many other cards are likely to give you 2-4 points, it does not seem at all hard to get the same ammount of points out of one of those cards and a few trips to the harbour and a few auctions for geishas and anexes. (and then you will likely have more mon to spend for mission purposes.)

At first I too foud the bonus deck not very well designed(especially the 7 points for one mission of each coulor, which often give the player who get it 7 points for noe effort at all (except the effort to get it)is the most powerful in my opinion).

But it (the bonus deck) works very well in the game: Three or four draws should give you something good, the earlier you do it, the more likely you are to get cards that scores you many points (or to find the time to go back and draw another card, if the one you draw is not good.) Also, there are ways to look at the deck before you bid for it in an auction, so if you draw very bad cards, it is not just bad luck of the draw, it is also you taking unneccesary risks.
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Curt Carpenter
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I've thought about this (and played this) more, and I'm even more convinced now that it is overpowered. It's particularly bad because of the limit of 2 bonus cards. Sure, that one event card (I forget what it's called) can wreck you, but in boardgames with luck you always play for the odds. It's only the last 3 or 4o turns that really matter, when you start amassing your fortune more than other players, and the chances of one specific card coming up in 3-4 turns is low.

Harald wrote:
To get a lot of mon, you must save a lot of mon, which could otherwise be invested in whatever you need to complete more misions.

But the thing is, doing all that investing/completing requires actions. Converting bonus card into vp at the end does not. This is a very important detail that must not be underestimated.

Harald wrote:
In the harbor, you get 3 ponts for 9 mon, actually a better excange rate than saving the mon for that card.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. At the harbor 3 points cost $9, but with the bonus card it costs $12. So you're saving $3 for one action. Late in the game $3 for one action is not that great.

Harald wrote:
If you have that card you can ignore going to the harbor, but that only make it easier for the other players to go there.

You don't necessarily ignore the harbor. You still can go to the harbor just to get the $3 if you have 1 action to spare. It's 3/4 point, and deprives someone else of the money who might need it more. If someone ninja's you on the $, you can still buy vp.

Harald wrote:
Another, even more efficient way to convert mon to points is to win auctions for geishas and anexes. Doing this gives you 2 points for 5 mon.

It's rare for there still to be geishas available late in the game.

Harald wrote:
At first I too foud the bonus deck not very well designed(especially the 7 points for one mission of each coulor, which often give the player who get it 7 points for noe effort at all (except the effort to get it)is the most powerful in my opinion).

Yeah, this card also has problems. Although more so with 2-3p, less so with 4-5p. I too grabbed it late game and coincidentally already had all colors (I thought it was types, but maybe there's both, either way same deal).

Harald wrote:
But it (the bonus deck) works very well in the game: Three or four draws should give you something good, the earlier you do it, the more likely you are to get cards that scores you many points...

Actually, I love the game, but the bonus deck is the one thing I see that could be improved. The thing is, you generally don't have to get them early, because most give you a reasonable amount of points just for doing what you do anyway. I think they really need to be more targeted, such that if you pull them late, you have a low chance of getting something that you happened to already hit. Another problem is the limit of 2. That's what makes the money card so good: you can get 10 points from a single card (and without crippling your play, like that one card for completing missions only in one color). I like the limit on action cards and uncompleted [sic] missions, as they limit your flexibility. But I'm less convinced on the merits of limiting bonus cards. I never see pressure on auctions for bonus cards because of the 2 card limit. But if there were no limit, then I think the auctions for that would go higher (a good thing), and fewer better cards could be offset by more weaker cards.
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Harald Torvatn
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curtc wrote:
I've thought about this (and played this) more, and I'm even more convinced now that it is overpowered. It's particularly bad because of the limit of 2 bonus cards. Sure, that one event card (I forget what it's called) can wreck you, but in boardgames with luck you always play for the odds. It's only the last 3 or 4o turns that really matter, when you start amassing your fortune more than other players, and the chances of one specific card coming up in 3-4 turns is low.

Harald wrote:
To get a lot of mon, you must save a lot of mon, which could otherwise be invested in whatever you need to complete more misions.

But the thing is, doing all that investing/completing requires actions. Converting bonus card into vp at the end does not. This is a very important detail that must not be underestimated.


Investing does not cost actions, it just cost you mon in the auctions. Completing cost actions, but even players completing small missions to earn mon must use an action to complete it. Also, with 4 diciples, actions are not that scarse.
curtc wrote:


Harald wrote:
In the harbor, you get 3 ponts for 9 mon, actually a better excange rate than saving the mon for that card.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. At the harbor 3 points cost $9, but with the bonus card it costs $12. So you're saving $3 for one action. Late in the game $3 for one action is not that great.

I view it more as scoring 3 points (and using 9 mon) for one action. Scoring 3 points for one action is definitely great. Also, when comparing this card with other cards, remember to factor in that other card (whatever that is, but it is probably one which will score the owner 4 points.) So we are comparing scoring 4 points + using an action to get 3 point for 9 mon with not doing an action, and score 2,25 points for 9 mon.

In fact, I think the harbor is so point-efficient that even the holder of the "1 point per 4 mon" card should use the harbor frequently. But if he does, the card does not score the super high numbers that it does when all mon is saved, and scores much more in line with the other cards.
curtc wrote:

Harald wrote:
If you have that card you can ignore going to the harbor, but that only make it easier for the other players to go there.

You don't necessarily ignore the harbor. You still can go to the harbor just to get the $3 if you have 1 action to spare. It's 3/4 point, and deprives someone else of the money who might need it more. If someone ninja's you on the $, you can still buy vp.

Harald wrote:
Another, even more efficient way to convert mon to points is to win auctions for geishas and anexes. Doing this gives you 2 points for 5 mon.

It's rare for there still to be geishas available late in the game.

You dont need aviable geishas (or anexes) win the auction (and if there are geishas, you cant expect to win the auction with a 5 mon bid.)In fact bidding for geishas (when no geisha is aviable) is also so point-efficient that also the player hoarding money should do it. But again, if he does, his card scores much less.
curtc wrote:

Harald wrote:
At first I too foud the bonus deck not very well designed(especially the 7 points for one mission of each coulor, which often give the player who get it 7 points for noe effort at all (except the effort to get it)is the most powerful in my opinion).

Yeah, this card also has problems. Although more so with 2-3p, less so with 4-5p. I too grabbed it late game and coincidentally already had all colors (I thought it was types, but maybe there's both, either way same deal).

Harald wrote:
But it (the bonus deck) works very well in the game: Three or four draws should give you something good, the earlier you do it, the more likely you are to get cards that scores you many points...

Actually, I love the game, but the bonus deck is the one thing I see that could be improved. The thing is, you generally don't have to get them early, because most give you a reasonable amount of points just for doing what you do anyway. I think they really need to be more targeted, such that if you pull them late, you have a low chance of getting something that you happened to already hit. Another problem is the limit of 2. That's what makes the money card so good: you can get 10 points from a single card (and without crippling your play, like that one card for completing missions only in one color). I like the limit on action cards and uncompleted [sic] missions, as they limit your flexibility. But I'm less convinced on the merits of limiting bonus cards. I never see pressure on auctions for bonus cards because of the 2 card limit. But if there were no limit, then I think the auctions for that would go higher (a good thing), and fewer better cards could be offset by more weaker cards.
Avoiding pressure for the auction for bonus cards is a very good reason to try to get them early, if everyone waits, there will (or should) be pressure.
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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Harald wrote:
I view it more as scoring 3 points (and using 9 mon) for one action.


Sure but you're taking an action to get your 3 points. The guy with the bonus card gets 2 points for the same 9 money with no effort. Worse... he can convert all of his money to points with no action. If you've got the same amount of money, you may have to spend a lot of harbor actions to convert it.

So you're paying extra actions to get 1 extra point for every trip relative to the guy with the bonus card.
 
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Harald Torvatn
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Thunkd wrote:
Harald wrote:
I view it more as scoring 3 points (and using 9 mon) for one action.


Sure but you're taking an action to get your 3 points. The guy with the bonus card gets 2 points for the same 9 money with no effort. Worse... he can convert all of his money to points with no action. If you've got the same amount of money, you may have to spend a lot of harbor actions to convert it.

So you're paying extra actions to get 1 extra point for every trip relative to the guy with the bonus card.


Yes. Realative to the guy with that bonus card, you also get points for your own bonus card. (I think we could reasonably assure that this scores about 4), therfore you need to this action one time for each point he get more than 4. Each time you win the auction for geishas or anexes, you need to get fewer times to the harbor.

You should not need to get to the harbor that often, and if you get to convert all your mon that way, you get more points than the player hoarding his mon. If he starts to convert money in the harbor (or through auctions) his card scores less points.

Also, if all players take green early (as they should) the player with that bonus card may find it hard to earn much mon without investing a substantial ammount of it in thing he need to complete missions.
 
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Harald Torvatn
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An example:

Suppose the player holding that card ends the game in possesin of 52 mon.

Then that card gives her 13 points.

Also suppose I get a bonus card giving me 4 points. Many of them do.

Then i need to get 27 mon and tree actions in the harbor to get as many points as her.

Is it easier to get 52 mon than to get 27 mon and go 3 times to the harbor? Maybe (but I doubt it). Is it much easier? Definitely not. Is her card then that much better than my 4 point card?
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Curt Carpenter
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Harald wrote:
So we are comparing scoring 4 points + using an action to get 3 point for 9 mon with not doing an action, and score 2,25 points for 9 mon.

You're thinking too small. We are comparing getting 9 points for $36 versus getting 9 points for $27 and being compelled to go to the harbor the last three turns in a row. Good luck with that.

Harald wrote:
In fact, I think the harbor is so point-efficient that even the holder of the "1 point per 4 mon" card should use the harbor frequently.
...
You dont need aviable geishas (or anexes) win the auction (and if there are geishas, you cant expect to win the auction with a 5 mon bid.)In fact bidding for geishas (when no geisha is aviable) is also so point-efficient that also the player hoarding money should do it.

That's incorrect. There's an opportunity cost of $3 for joining the auction. So it's net $8 minimum to win the geisha auction. That $8 is straight-up two points with that bonus card. There is zero added efficiency of winning geisha auctions for the player with the bonus card.

Harald wrote:
Avoiding pressure for the auction for bonus cards is a very good reason to try to get them early, if everyone waits, there will (or should) be pressure.

Except that there isn't. Because it's easy enough to get a couple random bonus cards here or there, each of which pay our ~4pts. It's not worth the opportunity cost of other things and the extra money to take your chances at drawing a slightly better card. But if the 2 bonus card limit were lifted, then I would agree with you.
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Harold Coleman
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First of all, I think it is cool that a Norwegian Harald is replying to a post by an American Harold.

Concerning your last post, I did exactly what you said - I had 52 mon for 13 points at the end of the game and this was after hitting the Harbor several times for 3 points paying 9 mon. It was virtually effortless to keep on completing mission with minor investment to pick up more mon and more end game points. I completed 12 missions, most of them green and yellow.

Someone yesterday got this card on the last turn. She had 32 useless mon until the card gave her 8 VPs for it... and she didn't win the game. Another player completed 13 missions and had both bonus card giving points for variety - 7 for one of each color (I agree - too many points for this) and 6 for one of each type. And he had something like 60 mon at the end of the game because he completed 3 missions on the last turn. Imagine if he had held this card!

My experience so far is that the competition for the Harbor VPs is so competitive the last few turns that several players are bound to end the game with a LOT of useless mon. This card converts it into VPs with no effort at all. I need more plays to determine if it is overpowered, but it appears so thus far.
 
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Harald Torvatn
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curtc wrote:


That's incorrect. There's an opportunity cost of $3 for joining the auction. So it's net $8 minimum to win the geisha auction. That $8 is straight-up two points with that bonus card. There is zero added efficiency of winning geisha auctions for the player with the bonus card.


You are right, I forgot to factor in those.

Still, those auctions give the players who win them an action-free way to convert mon to points.

Harald wrote:
Avoiding pressure for the auction for bonus cards is a very good reason to try to get them early, if everyone waits, there will (or should) be pressure.

curtc wrote:
Except that there isn't. Because it's easy enough to get a couple random bonus cards here or there, each of which pay our ~4pts. It's not worth the opportunity cost of other things and the extra money to take your chances at drawing a slightly better card. But if the 2 bonus card limit were lifted, then I would agree with you.
There is such pressure in our games. There may not be in yours. But if you find that cards are unbalanced, I cant understand why you do not press for more chances to draw better cards.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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Harald wrote:
curtc wrote:
That's incorrect. There's an opportunity cost of $3 for joining the auction. So it's net $8 minimum to win the geisha auction. That $8 is straight-up two points with that bonus card. There is zero added efficiency of winning geisha auctions for the player with the bonus card.


You are right, I forgot to factor in those.

Still, those auctions give the players who win them an action-free way to convert mon to points.

But it's not action-free. The auction is one action. In fact in some sense it's the most important action. Not only can get some stuff cheaper than on the board, but for cards you also get to see 3 and keep one. So the opportunity cost of going to geisha for 2 points (especially with no geisha there) is at minimum the $3 you'd get if you simply dropped out of the auction, but more importantly it's the opportunity cost of doing something even more useful.

Harald wrote:
There is such pressure in our games. There may not be in yours. But if you find that cards are unbalanced, I cant understand why you do not press for more chances to draw better cards.

Because as I said, most cards are already "ok" without doing any special effort for. Once you have a couple, that's pretty much good enough. There aren't enough "great" cards to make it worth repeatedly going fishing. Everyone time you go fishing you are being horribly inefficient.

I think one aspect that's important (I can't remember if I already mentioned it) is that the degree of difficulty of bonus cards is often tied to the number of players. For example completing missions of just one color, or completing missions of all types or colors is much easier with fewer players. I kinda feel that the number of missions of each color should scale with the number of players, such that greens disappear reasonably quickly at all player counts, like it does with 5p.
 
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Chris Berger
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hgcoleman wrote:
First of all, I think it is cool that a Norwegian Harald is replying to a post by an American Harold.


Just watch out that you don't both get pre-empted by a French William!
 
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David Reed
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hgcoleman wrote:

Then there is:
- 1 VP for every 4 Mon that you own

I drew this card around turn 4 and immediately saw that if I completed a LOT of easy green and yellow missions that I could hoard mon and rack up a ton of bonus points. I did just that and ended the game with 52 Mon for 13 prestige points to go with my 4 points (1 for every green mission completed) to pull away from a tie heading to the end phase. And that was after hitting the Harbor District about 4-5 times for 3 points each. I think I completed 12 missions, including one of each color and type. One Black Mission alone rewarded me with 4 prestige and 35 Mon, itself nearly 9 prestige points.

Given that the maximum points for any other bonus card is reasonably 7, does anyone other than me think that this card is too powerful?


We played this weekend and the player with this card came in third, behind the leader by about 8 points IIRC. It was only one play, and I have no idea when he got the card. I'm guessing around a third into the game, because that's when he started amassing Mon.

Even with just the one play, I would say no. The winner won by only doing yellow and green missions and buying points. So it seems that all it takes for that card to be average is to having someone else competing for the easy money missions.
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Jeff Burgess
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I think a cap on this would fix it. I say fix because I agree it's broken. It is way, way too easy to end the game with a ton of mon - yes, it's really hard to get mon in the first half the game. In the last third, at least a few people are swimming in it.

I've seen someone end the game with 72 mon, with another player at 48 and another in the 30's. Yes, ALL were competing for other 'normal' resources, just the guy with the bonus really went for it. The guy with 72 mon got 18 VP for this one card (it was me). A lot of other players can't get 18 VP from both their bonus cards combined, nor do they even have the option of doing so!

Comparing this to the 9 Mon for 3 points option is silly - everyone will be competing for it. If anything, the player with the card has less incentive to go there and instead grab spots to complete other missions.

I've pulled this card halfway through the game and it took very little effort to adjust to get 8+ points out of it.

I'd suggest either:
4 mon = 1 VP, with a cap of 6 VP

OR

6 mon = 1 VP, with a cap of 8 VP

So either it's pretty easy to get 4-6 points (like a lot of the other cards) or you have to really work and you can get a little bit more than other cards provide (but not ridiculously more like 18 for one card).
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Thomas Vande Ginste
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Actually i m really impressed by the numbers. 72 mon? That s indeed a lot!
Never had so much modest
I agree that a cap would have been better. Not more than 6 vp for that card.
Still you have to be proud with your achievement too! Not many players achieved 72 mon in one game.
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Curt Carpenter
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The Wasp wrote:
Actually i m really impressed by the numbers. 72 mon? That s indeed a lot!
Never had so much modest
I agree that a cap would have been better. Not more than 6 vp for that card.

Can you make an errata claiming as much? $24 at the end of the game is nothing. I would suggest making it $5/1vp, with a max of 8vp.
 
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Jeff Burgess
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The Wasp wrote:
Actually i m really impressed by the numbers. 72 mon? That s indeed a lot!
Never had so much modest
I agree that a cap would have been better. Not more than 6 vp for that card.
Still you have to be proud with your achievement too! Not many players achieved 72 mon in one game.


I was trying, but it didn't even seem that hard (It was 8+ months ago, but I recall the 72 very well because of how ridiculous the card ended up being). I've generally played 3-4 player games and while there are a few people still low on money (< 10) at the end of the game, that's far more uncommon than people with 30+.

Bluntly, even getting 8 points for that card for 32 mon would be overly strong compared to the other cards. At that point one black quest could do it and it would be the 2nd most powerful bonus card out there - and you get it incidentally from one quest (or say, 3-4 green quests which is also very, very easy).

I think 6 mon per vp, with a cap (either 6 or 8) is my vote.
 
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Thomas Vande Ginste
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No problem.
We won t gove an official amount here . As said
In other treads , yoi have
To enjoy the game the way you like it.
If we decide here that it has to be this or that , someone will be happy
And an other one upset. .
So you just decide what happens in your box. Think that s most fair to everyone.
 
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