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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game – The Black Riders» Forums » Rules

Subject: How do Hide checks work? rss

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Robin Munn

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While I wait impatiently for my copy of the expansion to arrive, can anyone who's gotten their hands on it yet explain how Hide checks work? FFG hasn't posted the text of the rules on their website yet, alas. I've been reading the text of the quest cards at lotrlcg.com and have a pretty good idea of how the quests will play out... except for that one minor detail. I'd like to start designing decks to work well with the Black Riders scenarios, but to do that I'll need to know how the Hide mechanic works.

E.g., one way I guess the Hide check might work is "Hide X: discard X cards from your deck. If their total cost is equal to or less than this card's threat, then you pass. If their total cost is greater than this card's threat, then you fail." If that's the case, then filling my deck with copies of Gandalf, Fortune or Fate, and Light the Beacons (not to mention Secrecy cards) would be a bad idea. (Actually, I kind of hope it doesn't work that way, because it means Secrecy cards would be very counterproductive in Hide checks, which would be disappointingly unthematic.) But if Hide checks work completely differently from how I'm imagining them, then I'd have to use a different deckbuilding approach.

So who's gotten their copy yet, and can explain how Hide checks work?
 
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Robin Munn

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Thanks. I like that mechanic much better than the one I speculated in my first post. Looks like Willpower is all-important in Black Riders quests. Now I know how to build my decks while I wait for my copy to arrive.
 
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Greg Burkett
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One question I have.. So, I know there's a difference between a quest card telling you to "add" a card to the staging area and "reveal, then add" a card to the staging area. Simply 'adding' doesn't trigger the when revealed effects of a card.

But when you 'add' a Black Rider to the staging area as the third quest card instructs you to in the first quest, does that cause the Hide 2 to trigger?

It kinda seems like it should, but man.. that's a TOUGH one-two punch to have to deal with all at once.
 
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Robin Munn

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Question 1.22 of the FAQ says,

FAQ 1.22 wrote:
(1.22) "When Revealed" effects

A card is only considered to be revealed if the card or game effect causing the card to enter play specifically uses a form of the word "reveal".


Since I don't yet have my copy of Black Riders, I looked up the game text on lotrlcg.com. The first stage of the first quest says to "add" a Black Rider to the staging area, while the second and third stages say to "reveal" a Black Rider. (And "reveal" includes "... and add to the staging area", of course.) So the first stage doesn't require a Hide check, but the second and third do.
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S Denison
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Does a hero with Light of Valinor or Gandalf (OHUH) still use their willpower towards the quest if they are used for the Hide check?

My guess (and hope) would be that they do since these characters do not exhaust to quest.
 
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Robin Munn

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Nothing about a Hide check says "if questing, character is removed from the quest", right? Then they would still be committed to the quest. Becoming exhausted (for any reason) and being removed from the quest are two separate conditions that don't interact with each other -- which is why, for example, treacheries that remove characters from the quest do not ready them. Therefore, if these characters are committed to the quest but still readied, they're available to exhaust for other mechanics (including Hide checks) without it affecting their questing status.
 
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Vexx Veldarr

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Glorfindel77 wrote:
Hide checks actually work very similarly to questing. You dedicate characters to the hide check by exhausting them, then reveal X cards from the encounter deck, and add up their threat. If the will of your dedicated characters is greater than or equal to the total threat, then you've succeeded. If it's less, then you've failed.


I just got it. It says "After the Hide Test resolves, characters are no longer committed to the test". So it appears they ready immediately after the test is done and can hide again if the encounter deck gives you another hide check.
 
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Robin Munn

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Veldarr wrote:
I just got it. It says "After the Hide Test resolves, characters are no longer committed to the test". So it appears they ready immediately after the test is done and can hide again if the encounter deck gives you another hide check.


Sorry, but the part I highlighted in bold is incorrect. Just as being removed from a quest check does not ready a character, being removed from a Hide check would not ready a character either, unless the effect specifically says "ready". (I welcome correction from someone who has the rules if I'm wrong, but I'm about 98.5% certain of this one.) Therefore, after the Hide Test resolves, characters that had been committed to it are no longer considered committed to a Hide check (which matters for cards like Green Hill Country, which will give +1 Willpower to characters engaged in a Hide check as long as Green Hill Country is the active location). But that does not mean they are automatically readied. Just as questing characters don't ready when the quest is done, hiding characters don't ready when the Hide check is done.

Of course, if you have some other way of readying them (Unexpected Courage, Fast Hitch, etc.) then you can make them available again for another Hide check. But you'll have to do that readying yourself; the Hide check ending won't do it for you.
 
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Vexx Veldarr

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rmunn wrote:
Sorry, but the part I highlighted in bold is incorrect. Just as being removed from a quest check does not ready a character, being removed from a Hide check would not ready a character either


That certainly makes more sense. Very strange wording though. I haven't gotten around to playing it yet - I use OCTGN for everything so have to mess with importing the cards first.

 
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Dave D
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So I had a big issue playing with someone else yesterday. The hide test applies only to the character who revealed the encounter card, correct? I feel like this is the first time I've been in a situation where that matters(all other quests seem to apply to everyone, or first/last player). So, how does one determine who revealed the card? With two players, I would assume that either the first player is the one revealing both cards during staging, or the first player reveals the first, and the last player reveals the second.

I'm leaning towards the latter, but I'm unsure. I typically found it to our advantage if we could both make one hide check each instead of two checks going to one player.
 
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Peter Kossits
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Check the rules. There's a section explaining how the cards get pulled off the encounter deck. You do them one at a time. First player goes first and then you work your way around the table, each player adding one card.

p.


kurahoshi wrote:
So I had a big issue playing with someone else yesterday. The hide test applies only to the character who revealed the encounter card, correct? I feel like this is the first time I've been in a situation where that matters(all other quests seem to apply to everyone, or first/last player). So, how does one determine who revealed the card? With two players, I would assume that either the first player is the one revealing both cards during staging, or the first player reveals the first, and the last player reveals the second.

I'm leaning towards the latter, but I'm unsure. I typically found it to our advantage if we could both make one hide check each instead of two checks going to one player.
 
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Sean Jones
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How does the hide check work on the 1st scenario? Setup has a villain in the staging area with a Hide2- do you do the Hide check before anyone gets to play attachments and allys?
 
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Peter Kossits
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I think that first Nazgul is the only one that doesn't activate its Hide check.
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