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Subject: Combat Idea-"Dice face selecting"- Feedback? rss

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Adam Stapley
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Hello everyone!

STILL working on the correct combat for Epoch University, I just want it to be so perfect, I've done a few small games but I want my first big game to be a real piece of work.

My most recent idea is as follows:
-At the beginning of the player turn and enemy turn respectively, 5 dice would be rolled. Those would be the five values used throughout the entire player or enemy turn.
-Each player would have a mat in front of them representing their character. On that mat there would be 6 spaces, one for each value on a die.
-The values shown would coincide with the card selected for each value on the mat
-Leveling up would be access to new skills and cards to put on your mat for dice.
-You would be able to have up to 6 different commands on your sheet, but if you really needed to get somewhere you could replace 3 or 4 values with "move" so you could likely move a lot.
-Being as all players use the same 5 dice results, strategy between players would develop, as you usually wouldn't all of your eggs in the same basked. I.E everyone puts move as their 1 value. If no 1's are rolled, then no one can move and the turn might be not very useful.

-Enemies have the same method, but with set value. Minions would have 1,2,3 move 4,5,6 attack, while bosses would have 4 or 6 different commands, many combined (such as move+attack at a single result).

-Player skills might allow for rerolling of a die as a command, sacrificing a personal command for possibly a better chance at teammates having a good turn.
-Each character would have access to different skills and would have many options on how they are built.
-Each character would start with the same attack and move commands, with a support command being character specific. The player would start with 2 of each for their 6 commands.

Has anything like this been done for me to check out? Either way, what do you think, does it sound intriguing and fun or clunky and horrible?
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Craig C
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Would each command have the same number of cards, like only one "Move" card, etc.? If so then putting them on numbers wouldn't do much good, since there's an equal probability of each number coming up on a d6. You mentioned replacing 3 or 4 values with "move", so I'm guessing some commands will have more cards than others, but I wanted to clarify.

If you want to have a strategic element with your command selection, you could use 2d6, since there are numbers that come up more often than others with two dice, but you might want to add some kind of bonus or penalty from using some numbers over others, to entice people to pick the more rare numbers over the often-rolled ones.

Another option to represent leveling up and stronger/weaker characters or monsters is to vary the number of command cards they get. As you gain power, you gain more commands and the ability to do more in a turn than weaker characters/monsters can. Leave the dice out, and simply vary the card count. If you place a restriction on how often a particular card can be played, having more of a card definitely introduces a strategy element.

If you want to keep the random die roll and tie the commands to it, there should be a thematic reason why I wanted to move this turn, but couldn't, or whatever the situation turns out to be.
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Adam Stapley
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bird94us wrote:
Would each command have the same number of cards, like only one "Move" card, etc.? If so then putting them on numbers wouldn't do much good, since there's an equal probability of each number coming up on a d6. You mentioned replacing 3 or 4 values with "move", so I'm guessing some commands will have more cards than others, but I wanted to clarify.

If you want to have a strategic element with your command selection, you could use 2d6, since there are numbers that come up more often than others with two dice, but you might want to add some kind of bonus or penalty from using some numbers over others, to entice people to pick the more rare numbers over the often-rolled ones.

Another option to represent leveling up and stronger/weaker characters or monsters is to vary the number of command cards they get. As you gain power, you gain more commands and the ability to do more in a turn than weaker characters/monsters can. Leave the dice out, and simply vary the card count. If you place a restriction on how often a particular card can be played, having more of a card definitely introduces a strategy element.

If you want to keep the random die roll and tie the commands to it, there should be a thematic reason why I wanted to move this turn, but couldn't, or whatever the situation turns out to be.


You would receive more of commands by choice at level up, so at each level up you would receive a basic command of your choice (move, attack, support) and a character specific command at random.

As the days move along (the game is played over a series of days), the commands could become larger, perhaps your lowest leveled player determines the number of dice rolled, or something. The monsters would get progressively more active and harder by adding an extra die each night. Good idea!

As far as the theme goes, we have a VERY rich theme to place this world in, and it's based on college so literally anything could be integrated into the rules by "the Board of Regents."
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Craig C
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AtStapley wrote:
As far as the theme goes, we have a VERY rich theme to place this world in, and it's based on college so literally anything could be integrated into the rules by "the Board of Regents."


What I meant by the theme explaining things is how does it explain when I want to move, I play a move card on the "3", but I don't roll any 3s with my dice? How does it make sense, thematically, that I can't move?

If you can incorporate explanations like that into the theme of your game, you'll have a better shot of convincing players that your dice-and-card system is a good one.
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In terms of probability, this combat system should be similar to www.warringkingdom.com's combat (at least the hero part). I can tell you from experience the stats work out well

Keep up the good work! Always find new combat systems exciting.
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Adam Stapley
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bird94us wrote:
AtStapley wrote:
As far as the theme goes, we have a VERY rich theme to place this world in, and it's based on college so literally anything could be integrated into the rules by "the Board of Regents."


What I meant by the theme explaining things is how does it explain when I want to move, I play a move card on the "3", but I don't roll any 3s with my dice? How does it make sense, thematically, that I can't move?

If you can incorporate explanations like that into the theme of your game, you'll have a better shot of convincing players that your dice-and-card system is a good one.


Isn't the purpose of dice to not give you exactly what you want each time? My previous model was with the simple cards, and you would play the cards whenever you wanted, sort of like an VRPG style format. Also, it isn't "your" dice, it's the team dice. So, if you have move on a 3 and don't roll any, maybe the other players have moves on 1, 2, and 6, which got rolled, allowing them to move. I was having troubles with the VRPG format, but if you would like to help a brotha out and help me flesh it out, I'd love to look back at it.
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Craig C
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Yes, I get what you're trying to go for, as far as introducing a random element, and forcing the team to make choices with a limited number of actions available to them. That part I'm 100% ok with, but my question was how will the theme, or the game world, or whatever, "explain" to the players how some of them got to do what they wanted and some didn't, if that makes sense.

In wargames, the player's commander unit often has a limited number of troops they can activate in a particular turn, and that's sometimes random. It's "explained" by the game with different commanders being able to activate different numbers of troops, reflecting how quickly those commanders react under fire, or how quickly they make decisions.

Going back to what you mentioned, if my team puts their "move" card on 1, 2, 3 (me) and 6, and we don't roll any 3s, how does the game "explain" to me that I can't move that turn? How do I accept that, as a player? To use an extreme example, what if we all put our "move" cards on 3 and no 3s came up. What's the rationale for none of us being able to move that turn?

If, for example, all of us played a card, and one die was rolled, and the team only had a number of available actions equal to the number rolled, then we'd be forced to choose who got to act, and it could be explained that this particular turn took less time than the others, or something like that.

Or characters could have an Initiative value, and they only got to carry out their chosen action if that number or higher was rolled, to simulate characters that were quicker to react than others. Monsters could have similar initiative values. And easier or more complex actions could have an Initiative bonus or penalty applied to the roll, to add some variance.

Your idea does sound interesting and unique, and it can work if you can come up with an explanation in theme or game world terms as to why the players can sometimes do what they want, and sometimes can't. That's all I was trying to say.
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Adam Stapley
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bird94us wrote:
Yes, I get what you're trying to go for, as far as introducing a random element, and forcing the team to make choices with a limited number of actions available to them. That part I'm 100% ok with, but my question was how will the theme, or the game world, or whatever, "explain" to the players how some of them got to do what they wanted and some didn't, if that makes sense.

In wargames, the player's commander unit often has a limited number of troops they can activate in a particular turn, and that's sometimes random. It's "explained" by the game with different commanders being able to activate different numbers of troops, reflecting how quickly those commanders react under fire, or how quickly they make decisions.

Going back to what you mentioned, if my team puts their "move" card on 1, 2, 3 (me) and 6, and we don't roll any 3s, how does the game "explain" to me that I can't move that turn? How do I accept that, as a player? To use an extreme example, what if we all put our "move" cards on 3 and no 3s came up. What's the rationale for none of us being able to move that turn?

If, for example, all of us played a card, and one die was rolled, and the team only had a number of available actions equal to the number rolled, then we'd be forced to choose who got to act, and it could be explained that this particular turn took less time than the others, or something like that.

Or characters could have an Initiative value, and they only got to carry out their chosen action if that number or higher was rolled, to simulate characters that were quicker to react than others. Monsters could have similar initiative values. And easier or more complex actions could have an Initiative bonus or penalty applied to the roll, to add some variance.

Your idea does sound interesting and unique, and it can work if you can come up with an explanation in theme or game world terms as to why the players can sometimes do what they want, and sometimes can't. That's all I was trying to say.


I suspect it could be explained through your character motivation and displacement after that long day of classes. We've all been to that spot where we had a hard day at school or work and when we're done we just don't want to move. A second idea I had was to deal with doubles--If there was a double on the board, you could either use each die once, so the same action twice, or you could use both die as a single action of your choice. This would still award the players who have something they would want in the right slot while adding a bit more choice. I also like the initiative value idea, everyone would be able to use the dice, but those that have more motivation would be more eager to move, while those that are raging would be more eager to kill. Maybe it could be similar to a dice draft, where there are 2x or 3x the number of players, and each player goes around and selects a die one at a time until they're all chosen. They then have that many initiative points to spent.

I actually like that second idea a lot.

The initial idea for the dice selecting idea was to be a head to head game, where you tried to outsmart your opponent by having counters in each die slot to what he or she had on his or her board. I think it would work exceptionally well for that, and that I might be trying to paste it on. I'll work on that game later.
 
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Craig C
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Rolling dice to get the group's allotment of initiative points could work well. If higher level characters had a reduced initiative base score, they could accomplish more in general than beginner characters could.

If a character had a base init of 1, and a Move card had a cost of 0, and an Attack card had a cost of 2, then it'd cost that character 1 point total to move, and 3 to attack. Or if it was based on a die roll, that character could move on any number, but would need a 3 or greater to be able to attack. Beginner characters, who might have a base init of 3, would need 3 points to move or 5 to attack, or higher rolls, etc.

Similarly with monsters, boss monsters could accomplish more in a turn than minions could, or have a higher likelihood of being able to attack than minions do.
 
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Adam Stapley
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bird94us wrote:
Rolling dice to get the group's allotment of initiative points could work well. If higher level characters had a reduced initiative base score, they could accomplish more in general than beginner characters could.

If a character had a base init of 1, and a Move card had a cost of 0, and an Attack card had a cost of 2, then it'd cost that character 1 point total to move, and 3 to attack. Or if it was based on a die roll, that character could move on any number, but would need a 3 or greater to be able to attack. Beginner characters, who might have a base init of 3, would need 3 points to move or 5 to attack, or higher rolls, etc.

Similarly with monsters, boss monsters could accomplish more in a turn than minions could, or have a higher likelihood of being able to attack than minions do.


I still really like the idea of customizing the face of the die to certain results. What if we kind of mixed to two: There are dice rolled, X for each player. Then there's a draft, starting with player 1 selecting a die and going around. Each player will select their dice in order to do what they want. Now, here's the kicker: Movement isn't part of it. Movement is just a thing that you can do, as I think that's the hang up for the previous model. so your commands would be special skills, attacks, and supports.
 
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Craig C
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I think that's a pretty good idea. Go for it!
 
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