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Subject: Obsoleting Egypt's wonders rss

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Jan Szczeciński
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According to FAQ's Advanced Civ Variant Egypt's wonders can not be obsoleted. However it is said on same page that Egypt is countered by Monarchy. So the question is all wonders build by Egypt are immune to obsoleting or only immune to Monarchy?
 
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Carsten Jorgensen
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All their wonders are protected (and it is said that "Egypt is no longer countered by Monarchy").
 
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Jan Szczeciński
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What about Gun Powder? Still immune or can I obsolete Egypt with it?
 
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El-ad David Amir
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iloveMRT wrote:
What about Gun Powder? Still immune or can I obsolete Egypt with it?

Still immune.
 
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Carsten Jorgensen
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iloveMRT wrote:
What about Gun Powder? Still immune or can I obsolete Egypt with it?


Completely immune.

In the first part of that page they just talk about what the effects of the variants are in general (what common strategies/imbalances they are meant to prevent). So don't focus on that. The actual rules are the ones after that. And here is says: "The Egyptian's wonders cannot be obsoleted." - so that is for any reason.
 
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Randor20 wrote:
iloveMRT wrote:
What about Gun Powder? Still immune or can I obsolete Egypt with it?


Completely immune.

In the first part of that page they just talk about what the effects of the variants are in general (what common strategies/imbalances they are meant to prevent). So don't focus on that. The actual rules are the ones after that. And here is says: "The Egyptian's wonders cannot be obsoleted." - so that is for any reason.


Still the text is missing something. Egyptian's wonders cannot be obsoleted by other players. Otherwise, you are forced to stuck to your initial wonder and to the 2 first others you can build with your cities. Maybe it's what it's intented, but I doubt so.
The text implicts that Egyptian cannot obsolete their own wonders with Monarchy/Gunpowder (what other Civs can do in theory even if the utility of such moves are very rare).
But the text can also be interpretated that Egyptian cannot build another wonder. -> I think the text miss something.
Egypt should be able to destroy their own wonder with Monarchy or Gunpowder and, most of all, by building another wonder.
 
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RoyalRook wrote:
Obsoleting Wonders is not the same with replacing Wonders. The variant didn't say that you can't replace Wonders with another.


Indeed replacing is different -> The question only remains on own obsoleting with Monarchy or Gunpowder.
The utility of such moves are very rare. The majority of this use is to save another player by weakening yourself. For example, a 3 players game.
Egypt have Great wall, Civ A is agressing Civ B who is quite weak and will be an easy target for Civ A. Civ B is the first player to move this turn and will be attacked by Civ A. Civ B needs an Iron to win the battle (Civ B have Math) but have no acces to it. -> Egypt harvest an Iron during CM, obsolete their Great wall and let Civ B attack one of his amry to loot the needed Iron.
Same for trades, if ever Civ A play disoriented during CM and bring some Civ B armies in range of an attack. -> Egpyt and Civ B were surprised and Egypt didn't give some trades to Civ B during trade phase. -> Egypt obsolete their Great wall to allow a lot of 3 trades from Civ B. -> Civ B can research his lvl 3 tech that will save his ass as Civ A would have looted 3 trades to forbid the research of the Lvl 3 tech.
Of course, these cases have like 1% chance to happen in a game but it can still happen ^^.
There are also some examples with Brandebourg Gate, Statue of Zeus (quite the same example for this wonder to allow the victory of Civ B vs yourself).
 
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Finaly I think Egypt should not be able to obsolete their own wonders. -> The text stay the same. They can replace them by building another one but cannot make move like own obsoleting, what over Civ can do in theory.
 
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