Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
17 Posts

Android: Netrunner» Forums » General

Subject: How to improve the online experience - Matchmaking! rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Maybe Next Time
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
The best competitive online experience with A:NR I've had so far was the OCTGN tourney that happened some 2 datapacks into Genesis. However well you did in the early rounds you were matched with other people that did equally well (or not well), so the quality of the games got better and better as time went on. The problem with the tourney setup is that it takes quite long to play out, new packs are released in the meantime and its quite intensive for the organizers. This means that 1 might happen less than every 6 months. The hardcore gamers want MOAR!

The Alpha and Beta Leagues introduced the Elo system into a league setup, which is a step in the right direction - if you want to play 20 games a week instead of 1, you can. The Elo points make the games more interesting, as there's something at stake and people will play to win.

The issue with the setup is that the quality of games you play stays constant, that is - random. Say you've had nothing but wins for your first 20 games and are in the top of the league. You host a game. Someone joins and you play a game. Landslide. You chat afterwards and it turns out they've just joined the league and haven't played much before.

You continue on playing. You play 10 games over the weekend. Randomly, you stumble upon a(n equally) skilled player and the 2 games are awesome. Luck of the draw.

The other 8 games are with players that are new or much lower down the ladder. While some can be tight exciting games, the quality is just random. Say you win 6 (average Elo gain of 6 points per game) and lose 2 (-12, -21 points) with a net gain in points. Yay! You've raised your Elo! But you've just played random strength opponenets and the your games were mainly exciting because a loss means you lose a bluntload of Elo.

I'm sure this works the other way as well. If you're a new player that has joined a league that's ongoing, you'd want to play new players or middle of the pack players - those games would be more interesting than playing the top players with very optimized decks straight away. The incentive to play higher ranked players is definitely there – winning gains a busload of points while losing means you drop only a few. But you’d be playing the randomness game – will I be the one that goes 1-1 with a higher ranked player and go +25 -6 in points?

If I compare this to League of Legends – it would be like you’ve just hit level 30 and can play ranked games. You go into ranked, scream MID OR FEED, get mid and are matched with a Diamond mid player on the other team, while the 4 other players on both teams are equally matched. You’ll get stomped in lane, not having a good time (game understanding, mechanics). The rest of your team may pull through and carry you to a win (randomness). Yes – you’ve gone up in Elo! Amount of fun had = 0 fun.

Long story short – I believe we need a matchmaking system in order to make the leagues meaningful for everyone. When will this be available?

I see on OCTGN that Matchmaking is under “50% active subscriptions”. Is this what I think it is and the answer to my prayers? If so, does this mean that 50% of the people on OCTGN need to be subscribers for it to be developed? i.e. we’ll never see it?

I say develop and implement Matchmaking NOW! Just need to think of how to increase the revenue stream from investing in that development. Having a Matchmaking subscription of like 1$ per month available would prolly work for US/Western countries/players with debit or credit cards. I know I’d be happy with that, but it would be a barrier for younger players or players from poorer regions.

Any other ideas on how to develop a matchmaking setup, like in a tournament group stage with prestige points, but that would allow for a high frequency of games (not 1 pre-set match a week)?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Konstantinos Thoukydidis
Luxembourg
Esch-sur-Alzette
Luxembourg
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sorry to dull your enthusiasm, but the matchmaking of OCTGN is prolly just going to be there to help players get into a game ASAP without messing with hosting and so on. It won't be about skill matching and so on. At least that's what I understand about it, but it's all kinda vague anyway.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maybe Next Time
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Wow, that is bad news indeed!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Maletic
United States
Rockwall
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I definitely agree with a need for some kind of change for the octgn tournaments and leagues. Having played in the first league, it was extremely disheartening to be looking for an opponent and find another league player who would proceed to turn down playing for sake of keeping up their stats. This topped with the handful of select only tournaments that have happened, it seems as if part of what has become the online playing scene is less about enjoying the game and more about a isolating process of snobbery and one-up-man-ship. I know being a game it is about competition. But it seems to me tournaments and leagues should be an open affair that encourage participation and rely on the structure of the tournament or setup of the league to naturally weed out the quality of opponent. As of now if you don't get a good streak the first few days of the league, you will never have a chance to play top tier opponents. Likewise, while invite only tournaments are bound to happen, broadcasting their happening, standings and results to those not invited seems useless. Perhaps I am destined to always be a mediocre players but little about our online playing community and experience has helped that change. I don't know if matching is the solution though...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kasper Lauest
Denmark
Helsinge
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tomatello wrote:
I see on OCTGN that Matchmaking is under “50% active subscriptions”. Is this what I think it is and the answer to my prayers? If so, does this mean that 50% of the people on OCTGN need to be subscribers for it to be developed? i.e. we’ll never see it?

I believe this refers to their economic goal - not the total users of OCTGN. So when they reach 50% of their fundraising goal, they'll implement matchmaking. But as DB0 points out, that's unlikely to be the kind of matchmaking system we'd like, since for that to work they'd have to first work out a ranking system, which they haven't said a thing about.

But yes, I agree, it would be good. I don't play enough on OCTGN to really be bothered, but it would be nice to actually be matched up with an opponent of similar mediocre skill when I do.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gregory Pettigrew
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
If I were to run a league, it would be like a King of the Hill competition. You get points for every game you play and additional points for winning games.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher MacLeod
Canada
Moncton
New Brunswick
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
etherial wrote:
If I were to run a league, it would be like a King of the Hill competition. You get points for every game you play and additional points for winning games.


Extremely exploitable; people can play against their friends or alt accounts and just farm wins.

Instead you can wait for someone to host a game and check their rating before joining if you want to make sure it'll be a close game. I'm not going to waste an expert's time getting my butt kicked unless I'm feeling at the top of my game on a certain day.

Or you can host a game and ask for experienced/new/medium players specifically in the room title.

This might take longer, but so would waiting for a matchmaking system to pair you up. I don't think there are enough players on OCTGN right now for automated matchmaking to be necessary.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gregory Pettigrew
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Kiv6 wrote:
etherial wrote:
If I were to run a league, it would be like a King of the Hill competition. You get points for every game you play and additional points for winning games.


Extremely exploitable; people can play against their friends or alt accounts and just farm wins.


How is that different from the current setup?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Carew
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
They tend to play really well in systems like this, where it is 1v1 and where the goal is as close to an even system as possible.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott C
United States
Troy
OH
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
This is the sort of thing that is likely to require a dedicated platform rather than a plugin for a generic platform.

In other words, this would be an amazing feature that probably won't appear outside an FFG-developed application.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Nordeng
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Am I wrong to assume that anyone can organize and run an OCTGN tourney?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nigel McNaughton
New Zealand
Wellington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nords3x4 wrote:
Am I wrong to assume that anyone can organize and run an OCTGN tourney?


Nope, not wrong.


Match-making based on ranking requires a critical mass of players to be online at all times, I don't think OCTGN has that anyway.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kelly Elton
United States
North Dakota
flag msg tools
Hello,
We will be rolling out user ranking through out our fundraiser. Matchmaking hinges in our mind on the ability to match players based on a number of criteria, including elo. So yes, as it stands, there will be mechanisms coming into play that will show players (potentially)wins/losses/ties, recent games, ranking etc, and that will be used in finding people to play in matchmaking.

Matchmaking will also be sortable by game type, as well as game sub types(something that's game defined which we haven't implemented yet).

Quote:
I see on OCTGN that Matchmaking is under “50% active subscriptions”. Is this what I think it is and the answer to my prayers? If so, does this mean that 50% of the people on OCTGN need to be subscribers for it to be developed? i.e. we’ll never see it?


It's also not 50% of players, it's 50% of the goal, so I believe 50% of the goal is equal to 1.6% of players.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
L V
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'd be excited about this. Just let me log into OCTGN, click a button to 'ready up' and be placed into a game with someone random who also wants to play.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Edwin Twentier
United States
West Virginia
flag msg tools
kelton5020 wrote:
Hello,
We will be rolling out user ranking through out our fundraiser. Matchmaking hinges in our mind on the ability to match players based on a number of criteria, including elo. So yes, as it stands, there will be mechanisms coming into play that will show players (potentially)wins/losses/ties, recent games, ranking etc, and that will be used in finding people to play in matchmaking.

Matchmaking will also be sortable by game type, as well as game sub types(something that's game defined which we haven't implemented yet).

Quote:
I see on OCTGN that Matchmaking is under “50% active subscriptions”. Is this what I think it is and the answer to my prayers? If so, does this mean that 50% of the people on OCTGN need to be subscribers for it to be developed? i.e. we’ll never see it?


It's also not 50% of players, it's 50% of the goal, so I believe 50% of the goal is equal to 1.6% of players.


So, assuming elo is going to be used for games, can we assume that there is going to be a better form of determining a winner of games that aren't coded as well as ANR?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kelly Elton
United States
North Dakota
flag msg tools
Edwin20er wrote:
kelton5020 wrote:
Hello,
We will be rolling out user ranking through out our fundraiser. Matchmaking hinges in our mind on the ability to match players based on a number of criteria, including elo. So yes, as it stands, there will be mechanisms coming into play that will show players (potentially)wins/losses/ties, recent games, ranking etc, and that will be used in finding people to play in matchmaking.

Matchmaking will also be sortable by game type, as well as game sub types(something that's game defined which we haven't implemented yet).

Quote:
I see on OCTGN that Matchmaking is under “50% active subscriptions”. Is this what I think it is and the answer to my prayers? If so, does this mean that 50% of the people on OCTGN need to be subscribers for it to be developed? i.e. we’ll never see it?


It's also not 50% of players, it's 50% of the goal, so I believe 50% of the goal is equal to 1.6% of players.


So, assuming elo is going to be used for games, can we assume that there is going to be a better form of determining a winner of games that aren't coded as well as ANR?


There will be api's supplied to the game devs to trigger 'Game End' events, as well as choosing a winner. For games where the scripting doesn't already determine that, the users will be asked to reconcile the status of the game after clicking 'End Game'(or something similar).

So if a game already has good faculties, the dev will be able to plug them right into OCTGN, otherwise the users will have to agree. I also imagine games that can't be agreed upon will be posted for manual review.

It's still a ways off but that's the plan at this stage.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.