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Warmachine: High Command» Forums » Variants

Subject: scrap deploy cost? rss

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Ryan Morgan
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This game is slow and boring so my brother and I have been playing around with the idea that you can play units from your hand for free and the word "deploy" is now equal to "rush".

We've also talked about returning war casters to play each phase of the war. So if you play it during the early war it is returned to you when the first mid war card is played.
We played yesterday and it was fun to have a higher level of interaction.

Any thoughts on this idea?
 
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Ben E
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Thoughts:

Don't like it.

Reasons:

Some cards are deliberately costed according to their power. If you treat deploy as "Rush" and deploying from hand is free then you break the game.

For example some Warjacks have a low purchase/deploy cost but high rush cost. This means they are normally slower to come out as they have to get into your hand and that reflects the feel of the unit it is representing. If you take that away then you just have big units slugging it out in the centre.

As for the Warcasters coming back there is now no reason to think when it best to use them and bases will be harder to take as it will only cost your opponent 2 resources to hit you for 3-4 damage.

Ultimately though the game can be played how you want at home. You just may find some cards massively overpowered now. Also some of the cards that you currently have to make decisions about are no brainers now.
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Ryan Morgan
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Your argument is sound. However, one of your statements has me questioning if I don't understand the game or if you misunderstood my variant.

In my variant the deploy cost is free but you must still purchase the card and send it to your discard pile. I do not mean rush all cards for their purchase price. That would break the warjacks. Once you re-draw a unit you do not have to purchase it again in order to play it from your hand.

I feel like the deploy cost is lame because its actually very expensive to deploy from your hand. Reason being you lose a card from your hand and you have to pay the purchase cost. Its nearly the same cost to rush a unit in most instances.

If I'm playing the game wrong please let me know and if I didn't make myself clear before I'd love to hear your opinion now.

Thanks for your response.
 
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Ben E
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Yeah I think you didn't make yourself clear before when you said:

the word "deploy" is now equal to "rush"


Maybe leave this bit out when explaining your variant as it doesn't really explain your intention.

What you seem to be going for is:

Units may either be rushed from the reserves for their rush cost.

or

Units may be deployed from your hand for free.



As for misunderstanding the game I'm not sure if it is that or if it is your style of play. I find I can usually play a unit at least every turn. Though I tend to ensure I buy some of the resource cards early or cycle to get them if they don't show up. That way I am able to have 5+ of either cmd or WAR every turn so I should always get something out.
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Ryan Morgan
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I'm glad I didn't completely mess up the game on my first plays! So yeah the idea is that you can rush from the reserves or deploy it for free from your hand. It is important to treat the terms deploy and rush as equal during play for card effects and such while using the variant, though.

I believe we are playing similarly I just find the play to be plodding at 1 deployment per turn. This idea seemed like a natural fit to increase intensity and I believe it plays to its deck building roots. My brother And I frequently play this way and enjoy it, so I thought I'd share.

Anywho, if you happen to get a wild hair one evening and try it I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Thanks for your input,
Ryan
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toby
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I just saw this as I was coming to this forum after spending days making a spreadsheet and crunching numbers and coming to the conclusion that the game was in fact designed and developed with Deployment being Free, with the "pay purchase cost to deploy" rule only being instituted towards the end, probably in response to economic (just buy cards worth VP) strategies being overpowered.

I'll be cross-posting my epic posts from the Privateer Press forums here on BGG but in case you (OP) are still subscribed to this thread I wanted you to know YOU ARE NOT CRAZY and in fact the math of the game work much, much better if you deploy for free.
 
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toby
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thraxar wrote:
Thoughts:

Don't like it.

Reasons:

Some cards are deliberately costed according to their power. If you treat deploy as "Rush" and deploying from hand is free then you break the game.


This is not true, BTW. Cards are costed by PURCHASE cost to their utility, including power. The Rush cost is used to account only for very small differences in utility among that larger subgroup.

So a card with a low purchase cost and a high rush cost is terrible per RAW, since it has low utility (thus the low purchase cost) but in practical terms costs a lot (since Rushing is cheaper than Purchasing and Deploying for all but 4 cards in the entire game when you figure cost by "average resourcing card" and include opportunity cost/the card itself in a card's Purchase & Deploy cost sycle).

Whereas a card with a cost like 6/7 is drastically underpriced since it's powered like a "6" (albeit probably not as good as a 6/10 or whatever) but only costs 7 in practical real world terms.

Making deployment free balances this. Cards with wide splits now have a downside -- they're still inefficient to rush -- but can be used competitively if purchased. I have done exhaustive "card math" demonstrating this. See my thread in this forum.
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