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Subject: To Mini, or not to Mini? rss

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John Wrot!
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You see a game on a crowdfund site.
You like the look of it enough to consider pledging...

Which would you sooner pledge for?

A game listed for $50 with no minis, maybe available in add ons?
A game listed for $80 with 8 quality minis, and more to be included with stretch goals?

FULL Survey here if interested: http://bit.ly/TKABkrSrvy3
(only 7 questions, but this is the most important one)

Thanks.
John
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Executive Bear
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I haven't filled out the survey but I think one of the most important questions to ask is "does this game require miniatures?". As I'm sure you are aware miniatures will add a lot to productions costs of the game. A game that has already failed to reach it's funding goal. A goal that was very lofty. Now you've gotten some money from your IndieGoGo campaign for artwork. Personally I wouldn't risk the good faith of those backers by once again having a huge funding goal, that might not be reached, because you decided to add miniatures. I think first and foremost you need to keep the game as originally planned, then if it is successful maybe think about another Kickstarter later on down the road that is for miniatures for this game.

That's just my thoughts though.
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Shakier Ismail
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There is no question here from what I can see lol...I would most definitely say to go with the pledge that include some mini's. Everything is better with minis
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Ralph T
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Higher cost means you lower your demand curve. And look what you're up against: Defenders of the Realm, which has over 100 minis. If people want minis in their co-op game they will want more than 8.
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Curt Carpenter
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If the game was fully functional without the minis (meaning there are cardboard or wooden bits or whatever), I'd choose the version without minis, even if they were the same price. Maybe even pay more for the version without minis if the design of the bits were highly functional.
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Mark Nicosia
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curtc wrote:
If the game was fully functional without the minis (meaning there are cardboard or wooden bits or whatever), I'd choose the version without minis, even if they were the same price. Maybe even pay more for the version without minis if the design of the bits were highly functional.

Well, it just goes to show you... even if you put up a poll asking what is better, ice cream or brussels sprouts, eventually, someone will choose sprouts.
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Jimmy Smith
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As soon as you say "mini" you've lost me.
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Elyse S.
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Mini's are not important to me unless they add function.
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C Bazler
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honeybunnie8 wrote:
Mini's are not important to me unless they add function.


What function do minis provide that standees cannot?

Minis are bling. Personally, I like games with bling.
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Curt Carpenter
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cbazler wrote:
What function do minis provide that standees cannot?

I'm not even talking about standees. I prefer flatees.
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Elyse S.
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If the mini has a counter for damage it adds function imo.

The only game I have that has "minis" is Eclipse though so my opinion isn't worth much probably.
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Aswin Agastya
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Just don't add minis for the sake of having minis in the game. Minis in the game should be integral to the tone of the game.

I too prefer (as in curtc's term) flatees. You can have lots of them, and they have more information, easier to store, sort, and set up.
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Jon
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I like how Arkham Horror comes with standees but minis are available for those who want them. I thought I'd like minis, and bought a bunch of games with them, but I don't have time to paint and most just look depressing without paint. I've actually started printing color standee-stand-ins. Also, minis are a pain to store. I'm not willing to pay extra for minis.
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Christian Gienger
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Perhaps I'm not the average kickstarter guy, cause I do care more about the game than about minis and/or zombies, but as others said, if the game needs minis (I can't imagine playing descent or other dungeon crawls) with tokens , add them, if you are better off with tokens (see Arkham Horror Monsters cause the information on the back and the random selection, go for tokens. I have Arkham Horror for ages but never thought about tripling the price of the game by adding minis for all the investigators, the box is heavy enough without them.
And no, I can't imagine to pay 30$ more for 8 minis.
And I honestly think that every backing level that includes the game, should include all stretch goals.
What happened to the idea of trying cheaper cardboard and stuff to lower the funding goal and add the better material as stretch levels?

Stay off minis if you're not doing a miniature game!
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David
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Having minis for the sake of having minis does nothing for me. I've got very few games with some minis: Eclipse, Get Bit! and Curse of the Idol. I don't even consider those to be true minis, more like custom playing pieces.

In Eclipse the whole array of components IMO justify going for miniature spaceships. You've already got cubes, chits and discs everywhere. Having something easily recognizable is in this whole sea of stuff is a good idea.

In Get Bit the "minis" are the actual game. Being able to take them apart is essential to the mechanics of the game. Also it helps that they seem to be rather stock items.

In Curse of the Idol you've got a 3d board with walls and turning gears and stuff. Getting a couple of "generic" adventurer pieces in different colors is justified.

But if you're going: "I'm going to make Pandemic 30$ more expensive by adding individual miniatures for each role". I'll have to say: WHY??? It would just make the disparity between a flat board and the playing pieces even more jarring and add nothing.

My recommendation is to start without the minis if your game doesn't need them. Maybe put them in as stretch goals. This for a change would be a good stretch goal IMO.
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Board Game Agent
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Kempeth wrote:
My recommendation is to start without the minis if your game doesn't need them. Maybe put them in as stretch goals. This for a change would be a good stretch goal IMO.


My thoughts exactly - this would be a really worthy stretch goal.

Personally, I love minis, but I have to echo what others have said - they are a big production expense if they are purely for aesthetics. I have no doubt that lots of people buy games on the basis of looks alone, however, my general belief is that gameplay sells way more copies, as does a price point that feels like good value to the buyer.
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Joke Meister
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Also think about what should be made into mini's.

Forbidden Island and Forbidden Desert are good examples of what I mean where the people are represented by little plastic cones whereas the treasure that you are trying to get is represented by beautiful mini's.
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Barry Hood
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It absolutely depends on the game. I've only backed one miniatures game so far, but I absolutely would not have backed that game without miniatures. For most games I don't find miniatures a must, but I'll make the decision on a case by case basis. If you're researching for the specific reason of starting a campaign then I'd say share some details so we can give a more informed opinion. In either case, take what people say in the survey with a grain of salt (people often tend to say they want the best components possible until you ask them to pay for the best components possible).
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Greg
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I'm quite happy to have included minis in 404 (Shameless plug!). Humans, items and monkeys can all be treated as objects in the same way, so I wanted to highlight their similarity and the difference between them and the players. I think minis help with that and it's only adding $2-3 to the cost of each game.

A beautiful game full of minis is a nice thing to own. Personally I'll generally prefer to buy two games without minis rather than getting one that uses them - but I know a great many other people think differently.
 
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x_equals_speed wrote:
I'm quite happy to have included minis in 404 (Shameless plug!). Humans, items and monkeys can all be treated as objects in the same way, so I wanted to highlight their similarity and the difference between them and the players. I think minis help with that and it's only adding $2-3 to the cost of each game.

A beautiful game full of minis is a nice thing to own. Personally I'll generally prefer to buy two games without minis rather than getting one that uses them - but I know a great many other people think differently.


I think in that case it's fine, $2-3 is a price I'd be willing to pay without having to think about it. $30 extra on a $50 game is a big jump, though. For that I'd need to understand what the minis were adding to the experience.
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John Wrot!
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This is all great feedback, and I value it highly.

I personally agree that a game with mini's just for bonus is kinda tough on me, because it's tough on the wallet.
But I know not everyone is in that position. I see games on KS all the time that have "MINIS!" and a $104 price point, and people throw money at it "because people will buy minis". I've seen it to be true.

We have mini's lined up for the game. We have an amazing artist who's worked on Hero Clicks among others, and we can be certain to produce excellence. The mini's are not required for the game, but I tell ya... everytime I play my prototype, I sub in my own mini's for the token...

So it came time to 'just ask'...
And thank you to everyone who's responded, here or on the survey.

Anyone have the same experience? Sub in a mini, and enjoy it more?

John

Survey link again for ease of newer viewers: http://bit.ly/TKABkrSrvy3
 
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Ralph T
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Mini games have done well but look at Shuriken as a game which had a high funding goal and did not make it. Dawn: Rise of the Occulites had a small number of minis (something like 26) and high price point and did not make it. And you're asking people to pay $60-$80 for a game based on free or almost free tower defense games.
 
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I've gotten over the need for the pretty chrome that are mini's. I'd rather have a good game without mini's than a crappy game with pretty mini's. I certainly wouldn't pay more to get them.

But take my opinion with a grain of salt as I don't do Kickstarter.
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Shawn George
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When I see a game on Kickstarter with minis, I intentionally avoid it.

Minis tell me that more work probably went into the design of the components, than the design of the gameplay.
Minis tell me that the game costs significantly more than it needed to.
Minis tell me that there's probably going to be a lot of "stretch goals" in the form of add-ons, so I'll have to spend significantly more than the cost of the game in order to get the "full experience".

I'm not completely opposed to games with minis (I own and enjoy Mice and Mystics), but I steer clear of games with minis on Kickstarter. I want to know that the game is good before I feel like pouring extra money into unnecessary chrome.
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Some games with minis are pushed just enough outside of my price range that I don't bother buying them.
 
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