Overgauss .
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Second poll group added.
 
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Even though I consider it less challenging than all those other games, I think it packs in more fun than all those other games (the one's I've played at least).
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That opinion is certainly valid but unfortunately outside the scope of this poll. If you want to talk about that I am certainly not going to even attempt to stop you (or anyone else for that matter), however it does muddy the discussion a bit.

However it truly is such a good point, that I invite someone to make a similar poll and replace difficulty/challenge with fun. Then perhaps another person could make a poll on immersion, art work or somesuch.

I think those would be excellent data points (and missing from most all other similar types of discussion)! No offense meant if you were to take it.
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Thinking further on it it seems a poll concerning both fun and challenge (or whatever mixture like gameplay, immersion, artwork or what have you)should be included in the same poll.

I think your comment sparked up a really good idea!
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Here is the problem with this.

Pathfinder has a variable difficulty.
Lord of the rings LCG has a variable difficulty.
Sentinels of the Multiverse has a variable difficulty.
Space Hulk Has a variable difficulty.
And the various D&D games have a variable difficulty.

So asking people to rate variable difficulty on a scale of 1- 5 is rather impossible.

For instance you can look here at the "more information" section for lord of the rings.
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/77423/the-lord-of-the...

As you can see each scenario has a difficulty assigned to it. Should I rate on Passage through Mirkwood with a difficulty of 1 with perfectly optimized decks from all the expansions?

OR should I rate it on the battle of lake town which gets a rating of 10 with only the basic boxed set decks?



Lets take a look at this:
http://x.gray.org/sentinels-of-the-multiverse-difficulty-sco...

Should I rate sentinels playing Gloomweaver in the Final Wasteland with 4 players?

Should I rate the difficulty when playing Iron Legacy in Rook City with 3 heroes? And I still have not even accounted for the particular heroes chosen.
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Does it count if I simply found enjoying it to be greatly challenging?
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Christopher Senn
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interesting i do find difficulty has a fun challenge. maybe i should of went with LOTR than Pathfinder
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Jim Hansen
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OverGauss wrote:
Thinking further on it it seems a poll concerning both fun and challenge (or whatever mixture like gameplay, immersion, artwork or what have you)should be included in the same poll.

I think your comment sparked up a really good idea!

If you're doing a poll about more subjective aspects like fun, art, and immersion, it will be highly skewed in favor of PACG because you'd only get the people subscribed to PACG. This poll seems fine though because difficulty is more objective.
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Teamjimby wrote:
OverGauss wrote:
Thinking further on it it seems a poll concerning both fun and challenge (or whatever mixture like gameplay, immersion, artwork or what have you)should be included in the same poll.

I think your comment sparked up a really good idea!

If you're doing a poll about more subjective aspects like fun, art, and immersion, it will be highly skewed in favor of PACG because you'd only get the people subscribed to PACG. This poll seems fine though because difficulty is more objective.


Dangity! That's a really good point.

Echo2Omega wrote:
Here is the problem with this.

Pathfinder has a variable difficulty.
Lord of the rings LCG has a variable difficulty.
Sentinels of the Multiverse has a variable difficulty.
Space Hulk Has a variable difficulty.
And the various D&D games have a variable difficulty.

So asking people to rate variable difficulty on a scale of 1- 5 is rather impossible.


Thanks for mentioning this but I did go over this as best I could. For instance I used the word "overall" in the first 7 questions so that people could judge both solo and coop play overall. In other words the game as a whole. Unfortunately I omitted "overall" in my later questions and caught that fact each time as soon as I submitted this poll(once submitted the poll can't be edited)!

So for the purpose of this poll consider the questions to mean including both solo and coop play when answering. Thanks for helping me make this clarification.

As for variable difficulty I suspect your eyes skipped over the part where I said:

OverGauss wrote:


For the purposes of this poll please use the default difficulty of the game when answering.

Some games allow you to tweak the challenge level. This poll is interested in the challenge level without any tweaks.


This point remains unedited and was included in the original poll. I had hoped that bolding it would draw attention to it, but as you can see I failed in that endeavor. So thanks again for allowing me to draw attention to it!

Cheers!
 
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The Poll above is longer, relative to other polls, in proportion to the amount of product that has come out for the other games compared to Pathfinder.

-Have you ever played the first level or two of a video game and found it laughably easy only to find that subsequent levels make you want to throw your controller though the screen?
-Can you form a credible opinion on the moral qualities of Walter White based solely on the first season of Breaking Bad?
-When evaluating cars does "highest initial quality" count anywhere close to "long term reliability" (ok, that last one was a stretch, but I think you get my point).
 
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The answer to all of your questions are yes if the first level or two of a video game, the first season of Breaking bad, and highest initial car quality were linked to in your thought experiment like the base games were linked to in my OP.

I see where you are coming from but the poll compares apples to apples. Since exactly what I was talking about was meticulously linked to in my OP, I simply forget to make that distinction. It's a good point.

There is a lot I would have done differently given the chance. What is your position now that I clarified that the poll was about the linked items only?

E:
Updated quiz to reflect your input.
 
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So we're starting to get some data that shows LotR and Death Angel as having higher difficulty.

Would anyone care to comment on why that is? Is the challenge too frustrating or unfair?
 
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OverGauss wrote:
So we're starting to get some data that shows LotR and Death Angel as having higher difficulty.

Would anyone care to comment on why that is? Is the challenge too frustrating or unfair?


I haven't played LotR, but Death Angel is frustratingly brutal. Your best character can get wiped out on one roll of the die in the first round. Then you know the game is lost. It is the least enjoyable game I've ever played due to the high frustration. It requires good play and good die rolling to win, not just good play.
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Have you beat it yet? How did you feel if you did? When we finally beat it there was a lot of jumping up and down, high fives, and hooting in hollering.

So much so that someone came out of the bedroom to check to see what was going on. Then he was like omg you won? Him having quit after the game prior. Of course a lot of smack talking was our response to his question.

We enjoyed DA because everything mattered and the experience mirrored our expectation of being a bunch of bad ass space marines that were hopelessly outnumbered and surrounded by aliens while moving room to room via tiny corridors of death. Winning proved that they actually WERE bad ass space marines. Weird I know.

Hmmm. Now I've got an itch to play DA and maybe see about picking up the other expansions.


Edit:
The game is so epic someone wrote a 118 page guide for it! The author calls it the Death Angel Complete Guide. At 118 pages I suspect it is lol.

Edit:
Also see What am I doing wrong? The list of possible mistakes.
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I voted Death Angel as the hardest game up there largely due to the fragility of the space marines. the shear number of foes and the punishing event deck. I must be a sucker for punishment though as I love the game

I found LoTR's difficulty to swing wildly depending on number of players (we found 4 to be a lot easier than 2) and deck composition. The pattern of the more difficult scenarios tends to be build a deck, play, lose due to bad draws/deck composition, rebuild deck, repeat. I guess I find the challenge in LoTR is in the deck building part rather than the scenarios themselves. Not sure on how others feel about it though

I think as of now the game of Pathfinder is on the same level of challenge as LoTR but without the immediate deckbuilding element. Over the course of the adventure packs I'm expecting/hoping character builds and the evolution of your deck will start making an impact as the challenges get harder.
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Does Pathfinders difficulty swing as wildly as LotR's? Where does Pathfinder's difficulty manifest itself?
 
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I think that Sentinels of the Multiverse and Lotr are hard to catalogue as difficulty level...

It is even hard to average because the difficulty goes from very easy to mindnumblingly difficult. And there is no real way to set the game.

This is especially true of SotM wich is very dependant of the combination of heroes, number of heroes, vilain, environment and the way some of them interract with each other or not.

Some of the game are brutal... like Iron Legacy when we started with -17 HP each right after setup. And before the vilain turn.
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Nathaniel GOUSSET
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OverGauss wrote:
Does Pathfinders difficulty swing as wildly as LotR's? Where does Pathfinder's difficulty manifest itself?


Some fanboys think the difficulty will manifest in the already printed further scenario packs. Some other people fear that this difficulty will never manifest.

In a RPG the hardest time is the beginning, in a boardgame difficulty usually ramp up.

Hard to know how PAGC will behave without seing the next pack... But it is perfectly possible that the game wont change in difficulty either, with added power countering increased check value.
 
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Pathfinder's challenge comes via resource management, with leas players it can be an easier challenge as you have more time to complete the objective. The flip side of this is that there's a greater chance that your party won't have the range of skills available to deal with the immediate threats and you have to be fairly shrewd with your hand management and pushing your luck lest you die.

With a larger party your more pushed for time but you'll have a whole heap of skills and abilities to play as a group. I found these setups tend to be less risky and lead to failure by running out the blessing deck.
 
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OverGauss wrote:
Have you beat it yet? How did you feel if you did? When we finally beat it there was a lot of jumping up and down, high fives, and hooting in hollering.

So much so that someone came out of the bedroom to check to see what was going on. Then he was like omg you won? Him having quit after the game prior. Of course a lot of smack talking was our response to his question.

We enjoyed DA because everything mattered and the experience mirrored our expectation of being a bunch of bad ass space marines that were hopelessly outnumbered and surrounded by aliens while moving room to room via tiny corridors of death. Winning proved that they actually WERE bad ass space marines. Weird I know.

Hmmm. Now I've got an itch to play DA and maybe see about picking up the other expansions.


Edit:
The game is so epic someone wrote a 118 page guide for it! The author calls it the Death Angel Complete Guide. At 118 pages I suspect it is lol.


Yes, we (oldest son and me) beat it once and I remember we felt very indifferent (very "meh"). Much unlike our first wins in Witches of Salem or Ghost Stories which was filled with whoops and high fives. We stopped playing Death Angel after that.
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Nathaniel GOUSSET
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rougenoir wrote:

A further problem for me is that the opening phase of the game always feels the same, a bit like e4 always followed by e5, and by Nf3 in chess.


Well, you dont happen to play chess in club very often... It happen to be years without someone answering e5 to my e4, and I am one of the rare people that do push e4 and not d4 (or the more exotic, c4, CF3 or even f4).

Against e4 I majorily see e6, rarely d5, more often c5 by agressive people.

Frankly Chess is one of the worst example of static openning moves.
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IKerensky wrote:
OverGauss wrote:
Does Pathfinders difficulty swing as wildly as LotR's? Where does Pathfinder's difficulty manifest itself?


Some fanboys think the difficulty will manifest in the already printed further scenario packs. Some other people fear that this difficulty will never manifest.

In a RPG the hardest time is the beginning, in a boardgame difficulty usually ramp up.

Hard to know how PAGC will behave without seing the next pack... But it is perfectly possible that the game wont change in difficulty either, with added power countering increased check value.

Have you played all the scenarios that come with the box set? There are 8 of them, and I think a lot of people are judging after having only played the first few scenarios. The last two in Burnt Offerings upped the difficulty level, especially the second to last.

That said, any group with decent strategy should be able to win every time. It's a relatively easy game. I have yet to lose or see a character death, playing solo with 1 or 2 characters for the first couple of scenarios, or playing with a group of 4 through the whole thing. But it's fun seeing the progression as you move to tougher adventures and improve your character over time. I'm enjoying it, overall.

But I also don't have a frame of reference to compare to those other games in the poll. I come from the RPG side of Pathfinder, so I don't know board/card games as well as most folks here. I only came to BGG because I kept seeing comments on Paizo's site about how there's more discussion of this game here than on their site.
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Thanks for participating everybody! I'm not satisfied with how I set up this poll because there are too many errors and stuff like that so I'll be taking it down here in a bit. I just wanted to give you warning.

Thanks again for taking the time to participate in this poll!
 
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