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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Some Rules Questions rss

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Tyler Lytle
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Hey peoples! I am new to the forums and I have been playing Descent 2 with some of my buddies for a couple of weeks now. There are some problems with the rules where things are very muddy and we were wondering how other people play them.

1) Running Shot (I know... I know...)

So, from what I can gather on these forums, you can use Running Shot to gain 2 movement points and use those movement to gain LoS to a target then make an attack (http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/907651/running-shot-movement...).

However, this contradicts the rules on pg 12, paragraph 1 under the "Declare Weapon and Target" section where it states that you must have LoS to a target before you can make an attack. This would seem to indicate to me that you cannot use Running Shot to gain movement points in order to obtain LoS to a target. Note that this really only applies if you are gaining your movement points "before the attack" (which really does not make much sense to me since gaining movement points before or after the attack literally has no difference in the game since movement points can be pooled until you want to use them).

I guess the basic problem I have with this is that the game has to "look into the future" to determine if making an attack after using the movement points is viable. If not, then you cannot use Running Shot. But, this seems really... wonky.

If this is the case, can then the player use Running Shot twice when he has no LoS to any target to gain 4 movement points, move 4 spaces, then make 2 shots to targets that are now in LoS?

2) Does an attacker get to see the defender's defense die roll even if he rolls an 'X' on his attack dice for purposes of using abilities that allow him to re-roll? For example, it might not be a good idea to use an ability to perform a re-roll if the defender rolls very high.

3) Do all re-rolls happen at the same time or can you perform re-rolls individually based off results of prior re-rolls? Can you re-roll the same die multiple times (assuming you have multiple abilities that allow you to do so)?

4) Fortuna's Dice appear to have very special timing requirements for when it is used. It has a qualifier that states that you can "re-roll any one die you have just rolled." Is this to be taken literally? Or, if you are re-rolling attack/defense die, then you need to wait until all dice is rolled and perform re-rolling as it is described in paragraph 4, pg 12 of section 2 "Roll Dice"?

5) Tobin Farslayer's Feat states that it must be used "after attack dice are rolled". Is this before or after the defender's dice are rolled?

6) If a Master has the Undying ability and is defeated by a hero and is replaced by a Minion of the same type, can the Overlord then spawn that Master during Reinforcements? What happens if that Master was carrying an objective? Does it drop it or keep it (assuming that the objective can be dropped)?
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Columbus
Mississippi
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1. I would rule no on that one. Rules as written may allow it.

2. Yes. All dice involved in an attack (attack die, power die/dice, defense die/dice) are rolled simultaneously. The attacker gets to know what the defender rolls for all decisions that are made "after dice are rolled," which is when all re-roll abilities occur.

3. I'm not 100% sure, but I would rule that you could re-roll one die with one ability, and then another die (or even the same die) with a separate ability.

4. Fortuna's Dice just allows a reroll of any one die. I believe the wording is the way it is in order to make it clear that it works for attacks, defense, attribute tests, healing, or any other skill or ability that requires a die roll. It does not force any special timing requirements.

5. After. See #2.

6. Yes, a Master with Undying can be reinforced, as long as the given Quest allows that group as Reinforcements. If the Master was holding an objective token, it drops in his space when he is defeated. If the objective token blocks movement, then the Minion cannot occupy the same space. I'd rule that the current player gets to choose the order of events, since they both occur on the trigger of the Master being defeated, so the current player would choose if the objective drops in the Master's space and the Minion shows up in the nearest space or if the Minion shows up in the Master's space and the token drops in the nearest space.
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Adny Riik
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Kurce wrote:
1) Running Shot (I know... I know...)
If this is the case, can then the player use Running Shot twice when he has no LoS to any target to gain 4 movement points, move 4 spaces, then make 2 shots to targets that are now in LoS?
you can use the 4 MP after you make two attacks, because spending MP's can be interrupted by an action. You cannot first move 4 MP's, because non-move actions cannot be interrupted by actions - you HAVE to finish the attack, before you can attack (an gain 2MP's) again.

Kurce wrote:
3) Do all re-rolls happen at the same time or can you perform re-rolls individually based off results of prior re-rolls? Can you re-roll the same die multiple times (assuming you have multiple abilities that allow you to do so)?
you reroll all dice, one ability allows you to, at once. Then you proceed to resolve other reroll abilities
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D P
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I'll only be answering #1:

Kurce wrote:

1) Running Shot (I know... I know...)

So, from what I can gather on these forums, you can use Running Shot to gain 2 movement points and use those movement to gain LoS to a target then make an attack (http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/907651/running-shot-movement...).

However, this contradicts the rules on pg 12, paragraph 1 under the "Declare Weapon and Target" section where it states that you must have LoS to a target before you can make an attack. This would seem to indicate to me that you cannot use Running Shot to gain movement points in order to obtain LoS to a target. Note that this really only applies if you are gaining your movement points "before the attack" (which really does not make much sense to me since gaining movement points before or after the attack literally has no difference in the game since movement points can be pooled until you want to use them).

I guess the basic problem I have with this is that the game has to "look into the future" to determine if making an attack after using the movement points is viable. If not, then you cannot use Running Shot. But, this seems really... wonky.

If this is the case, can then the player use Running Shot twice when he has no LoS to any target to gain 4 movement points, move 4 spaces, then make 2 shots to targets that are now in LoS?


Concerning the post you mentioned, along with other things, I actually disagree that you can 'make an attack' without having line of sight to begin with, and thus would not be able to use the ability before moving.

Let me set up a lil scenario.

1) Hero needs to move 2 spaces to get into line of sight of a monster.
2) So hero uses the ability to gain 2 movement points 'with an attack' (the hero is not making the attack, as they have no valid targets yet).
3) The hero moves 1 space.
4) The OL plays Pit Trap, and the hero fails, thus losing 1 movement point, leaving them with 0.

The hero is now in a position where they have no valid target, cannot make the attack, and thus could not have used the ability to gain two movement points since they could not make the attack.

This breaks the rules in multiple ways, which shouldn't happen. They declared an attack without LoS, and they activated an ability with an attack without actually making the attack to activate the ability.

The card does not overwrite the rules, because it is worded in such a way that you gain the movement points before or after the attack, but you must be making an attack to gain the movement points.

Perhaps in the future, there will be monsters that require you to spend movement points to hit it (kind of like the Shadow Dragon requires a surge), thus either eating up part of a movement action or fatigue when attacking it. This skill would work great against said enemy because it'd give you movement points before the attack.

However, in this instance, the wording of the card, along with how the card works, and how things can effect the card causes too many breaks in viability if you take the idea that it can be used to move into LoS and attack

I feel that the attack is based on an attack in 4th edition D&D that allows for a character to move two spaces then attack if they want, or to attack and then move two spaces. But because Descent 2e is not D&D4e, the exchange of that ability doesn't quite roll over, because there are things that can interrupt it and make it no longer viable, whereas in D&D, that limitation is not there. If you initiate the attack ability mentioned, and something stops you, then it just cancels the rest of the ability. Whereas, in Descent2e, the ability itself relies on being able to attack, because the attack activates the ability, so if you cannot attack, the ability cannot trigger.
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