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Subject: Cards of fate-variant rss

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Björn von Knorring
Sweden
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The picture is a swedish cartoon-figure Herman Hedning. English info here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Hedning
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At the last World championship there was some discussions about some ways to change the randomness of th cards of fate. One idea that came up that I liked was this. Please note that the credit is not mine but I am not sure who was the original designer.

First sort out all the minor events from the cards of fate deck. That´s twelve cards. Then take the remaining six major events and group them together:
- Sweden/Russia
- Poems/Lord Brute
- India/America

- Take the twelve minor events deck ad split in two decks with six in each.
- Shuffle India/America and place one card in each pile
- Shuffle Poems/Lord Brute and place one card in each pile
- Shuffle Sweden/Russia and place one card in each pile

Shuffle both deck separately and place one deck on top of the other.

You now have a cards of fate deck with a more even spread of the cards of fate. You also know for example that Prussia will suffer card reduction before the game is over.

As an extra variant if you want to prolong the life of Elizabeth. this might be more fun for the Russian player since he wont drop out really early and have less to do is to do the following:

- instead of shuffling in Sweden/Russia in the deck. Take one of the decks, remove four cards and plce them aside. Shuffle one of Sweden/Russia randomly in the deck. Place the four cards on top. Shuffle the other Russia/Sweden-card in the other deck. Place deck number two on the bottom.

Now you know that Sweden/Russia wont drop out until the end of turn 10 at the earliest.

All in all I think this make the cards of fates less random and the game a little more predictable. Some might like it and some like the randomness of the cards of fate.
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Guy Atkinson
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The only really significant fate card is Elisabeth. If Russia leaves the game early, Prussia’s chances of winning are greatly increased. Sweden fights on alone, but has precious little hope of making much progress.

Making two half-decks, each with a fifty-fifty chance of including Elisabeth doesn’t solve this and, if I understand your second suggestion correctly, one of Elisabeth and Sweden will always be among fate cards 5-9 (turns 10-14) and the other always in the second half of the fate deck (turns 15-23). If Sweden comes up early, Russia can breathe a huge sigh of relief. Or if Russia goes out early on, then the Swedes are left facing a long haul.

How about this:

- remove Elisabeth
- shuffle the other 17 fate cards
- randomly remove six of these and place them aside in two groups of three
- shuffle Elisabeth into the 11 remaining cards
- of these 12 cards, randomly remove two and add one each to the two groups of three left aside
- separately shuffle the two groups of four
- create the fate deck thus: group of four – group of ten – group of four

With this system, Elisabeth may still be the first fate card (or indeed the last), but is more likely to be among the main group (turns 10-19).
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Björn von Knorring
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The picture is a swedish cartoon-figure Herman Hedning. English info here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Hedning
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Good suggestion as well.
 
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bingo lotto
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Interesting ideas.
I think one might also consider the option when to start drawing the cards of fate.

Example:

Draw the cards of fate two rounds later, and remove two no effect cards.

If you combine this with the variants mentioned above this might lead to an interesting scenario, at least in theory?

Personally im leaning towards the idea of slightly changing when to start drawing the cards of fate.

Regardles, Friedrich (and Maria) are the best games i have ever played
 
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Andrew Brown
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York
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Tha can allus tell a Yorkshireman, but tha canna tell him much
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myth1202 wrote:
At the last World championship there was some discussions about some ways to change the randomness of th cards of fate. One idea that came up that I liked was this. Please note that the credit is not mine but I am not sure who was the original designer.

First sort out all the minor events from the cards of fate deck. That´s twelve cards. Then take the remaining six major events and group them together:
- Sweden/Russia
- Poems/Lord Brute
- India/America

- Take the twelve minor events deck ad split in two decks with six in each.
- Shuffle India/America and place one card in each pile
- Shuffle Poems/Lord Brute and place one card in each pile
- Shuffle Sweden/Russia and place one card in each pile

Shuffle both deck separately and place one deck on top of the other.

You now have a cards of fate deck with a more even spread of the cards of fate. You also know for example that Prussia will suffer card reduction before the game is over.

As an extra variant if you want to prolong the life of Elizabeth. this might be more fun for the Russian player since he wont drop out really early and have less to do is to do the following:

- instead of shuffling in Sweden/Russia in the deck. Take one of the decks, remove four cards and plce them aside. Shuffle one of Sweden/Russia randomly in the deck. Place the four cards on top. Shuffle the other Russia/Sweden-card in the other deck. Place deck number two on the bottom.

Now you know that Sweden/Russia wont drop out until the end of turn 10 at the earliest.

All in all I think this make the cards of fates less random and the game a little more predictable. Some might like it and some like the randomness of the cards of fate.


My fellow countryman and fellow FWC competitor John McCullough had this idea.

I will make this comment about ALL variations to how the cards of fate are organised: any new system needs to be fair to all powers.
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Björn von Knorring
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The picture is a swedish cartoon-figure Herman Hedning. English info here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Hedning
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Archbold wrote:
My fellow countryman and fellow FWC competitor John McCullough had this idea.


Thanks for pointing that out.
 
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Mark Delano
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Here's a thought for a less strict variant, and one that weakens Austria a bit as well.

Have the Imperials switch control on the cards America/India/Elisabeth rather than the second card for the player. Imperial control priority would be:

Both Cards have come up (normal switch rule)
Elisabeth (Russian control)
America or India (French control)

Theoretically the Imperials could switch 3 times with this rule, if America/India comes up first (French control), then Elisabeth (Russian), then the other of America/India (French again) with Sweden last (game end).

I haven't played Friedrich in quite a while (having moved my attentions to Maria) but I could see the greater chaos of Imperial control leading to some entertaining situations.
 
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John Mac
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Just found this thread!

First of all, thanks to Richard and all players for making the 2013 WC such a wonderful event.

Yes, it was my idea. Not for ordinary play, just for tournament play.

I was prompted to think about the issue because I paid several hundred pounds to attend the (and my first) tournament - only to find the first two games I played were effectively over after the first 3 or 4 cards of fate because of 'extreme' draws. In the first game my Elisabeth went out almost immediately against Anton and one of the two France cards came out as well. In the 2nd game I played Prussia and the two France cards came out 1st & 2nd! Elisabeth was 4th I think.

I am not suggesting mine is the perfect solution but it will reduce the extremes like those two above (at least in the first game a Prussia card would have come out soon as well).
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John Mac
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Now just seen Richard's stats, the actual cards were:

Anton's win: 2nd COF Am, 3rd Elis, 4th Swe
My win: 1st Am 2nd Ind, 5th Elis
 
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Neal Ekengren
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Longwood
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My only beef with this game is the huge variability with these Cards of Fate. 18 turns. Could be lots of important stuff starting turn 6. Could be a tortuous wait for turn 24. I honestly don't see how this works with any fairness in tournament play.

My house rule.

Shuffle 6 Stroke of Fate and create 6 stacks.
Shuffle 12 Minor cards and add 2 to each stack.
Now you have 6 stacks of 3.
Austria is responsible for randomizing each stack. Prussia can't watch.
Prussia is responsible for creating the final deck from any combo of the 6 stacks. Austria can't watch.

 
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