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Subject: Some thoughts on individual survivor actions, as apposed to group actions rss

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zee Parks
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so, I've been contemplating some alternate rules for handling survivor weapon skills. The squad based skill tree would still apply, but would be handled a bit different for individual attacks by survivors, when their attacks are split up.

For individual attacks, instead of using your squad weapon skill (0, 5, 10) you would inter place these with the survivors weapon skills, which are shown as icons next to their portrait(if they even have any skill).

0-4 = untrained
5-9 = trained
10 = mastery

that's the normal weapon skill progression for the squad.

Now for individual survivors, we would simply rank them as follows.

0 = untrained
1 = trained
2 = mastery

thus if you had a survivor with 1 in melee, and 1 in firearms, they would be considered trained(using the second row of weapon stats) for both melee and firearms weapons when they attack individually.

you would still use your squad skill when attacking all at once.

I was thinking as a method to mitigate this being abused, would be that if you wanted to you can spend 1 action to have 1 survivor attack with their superior weapon skill in place of the entire squad attacking with the squad skill. Thus if you have untrained firearms, but a master firearms survivor(2 firearams ranks) you could have that 1 survivor make a firearms attack for 1 action at the master level, and then have the entire squad make a firearms or melee attack at the squads' skill level on the following action.

This method would be excellent for scenarios where you start with just 1 survivor, or for any scenario where you are only playing for one day, or just combat phase.

It also opens up the possibilities for having separate physical units for your squad, where you might be able to have a scout type of survivor, who breaks off from the main squad and can move independently(Aftermath mini's would make this possible, though rule such don't exist for this yet..), and use their stats independently.

Granted this all needs a fair bit of playtesting to ensure it doesn't break anything. also, if you have an individual unit, then hp become an issue, as you'd need to keep track of the separate units. Unless you introduced wound tokens of some kind for laying on the survivors card, which would work, though we don't supply any wound tokens of any kind at the moment, and personally I'm not a fan of hp tokens, as you need sooo many of them, it just gets messy.

Use extra Red Dice as wound trackers.
You could have the lone survivor track hp damage with an extra die, since many backers and zpoc owners have multiple dice included with their games. These could be used to track the damage taken to the survivor. If the survivor is at full hp, leave there card blank. If they take 1hp of damage, place a die with the 1 pip face up. If they take say 3 more hp, then they'd have the 4 pip face up. Continue this until the number of die pips shown = the survivors hp total.

At the moment, with the core game, the only survivor it would make sense to split up atm is princess the dog, since he has a made miniature to move around, independent of the survivor squad.

Once Aftermath lands, it will introduce 4-8 more survivor miniatures which could also be used as scout/independently moveable miniatures, in addition to ones squad.

Since they are on their own, they would not have any of their stats included on the squad board, and would just use what they have on their cards for useable stats. In most situations, they would not want to be frontliners, as a single double zombie could easily take them out.

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Shawn Macleod
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Very interesting. I will need some time to digest this idea. I'm not sure what I think.
 
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zee Parks
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macleodsr wrote:
Very interesting. I will need some time to digest this idea. I'm not sure what I think.


It's a very early/ unpolished Idea I've been toying with for creating rules for individual survivors to do there thing, in addition to keeping the squad mechanic.

Also being able to capitalize on the stats each survivor has in some other fashion.

aka for future expansions use the survivor stats for other purposes. perhaps in new scavenging cards or such.

aka, use melee as a strength check for perhaps lifting some rubble to save a survivor.

using raw defense score (not including armor) to dodge a vehicle or another survivors boobie trap.

The one thing I wish our survivor shad was some sort of charisma/social score. While not important for vanilla zpoc, I thought it would have been cool to have a stat which let you dictate how many survivors you could control. a leadership type of ability. Or as a diplomacy stat, for dealing with raiders or convincing a hostile survivor to back down.

granted this all goes more into an rpg aspect of the game, but it's just some thing's i've been toying with when I can.
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Shawn Macleod
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Great ideas. I agree they cater more towards the RPG aspect.

BTW, for anyone keeping score this is my ultimate list of things for a Zpoc Ultimate Edition:

1. Survivor tokens similar to those in Zmergency for my search variant of including the possibility of discovering a survivor during search token pull.

2. Revised Daily Goal Cards - perhaps those that include my "smarts" mechanic (which is in the infant stages of being developed). And, a "player beware" list for the Something's Happening Cards because some of those cards just don't mesh well with all games or player experience levels.

3. Player aid cards for summarizing the rules associated with each night. And, the other side of the card contains a summary of what you do when a survivor dies.

4. The revised movement mechanic for yield spaces.

5. A rule for using the different values on the ammunition/"click" dice. Not sure exactly what I'd like to see here, but I'd like to take advantage of them.

6. And, I'd like to see my Princess mechanic get formally adopted. The one that places her randomly on the board when drawn. Thematically, it works like this: whenever a player draws Princess it is the equivalent to hearing a dog bark. She is randomly placed on the board and the player draws another survivor card. The first player to reach Princess has the option of acquiring her. Princess is too smart for the zombies and is undetected by the zombies until she is discovered by a squad.

7. Zombie spawning tokens for use with Aftermath
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zee Parks
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macleodsr wrote:
Great ideas. I agree they cater more towards the RPG aspect.

BTW, for anyone keeping score this is my ultimate list of things for a Zpoc Ultimate Edition:

1. Survivor tokens similar to those in Zmergency for my search variant of including the possibility of discovering a survivor during search token pull.


Aftermath military tiles will have zmergency tokens as well, so it can expand on this.

Quote:

2. Revised Daily Goal Cards - perhaps those that include my "smarts" mechanic (which is in the infant stages of being developed). And, a "player beware" list for the Something's Happening Cards because some of those cards just don't mesh well with all games or player experience levels.


do you have a running table or list of your revised daily goals? I'd be curious to see what there like.

Quote:

3. Player aid cards for summarizing the rules associated with each night. And, the other side of the card contains a summary of what you do when a survivor dies.


we had these originally, but discarded the idea in favor of the squad board handling the info. I could see it being useful though for new players still. If you have any specific information for what would be on said card I could mock up some print and play variants.

Quote:
4. The revised movement mechanic for yield spaces.
yup. it's just cleaner this way.

Quote:
5. A rule for using the different values on the ammunition/"click" dice. Not sure exactly what I'd like to see here, but I'd like to take advantage of them.
yeah, i hear you, though I'm not sure what else could be done, except if one were to have a plethera of extra blue click die, and use them as literal counters for their ammo, reducing each pip until it goes click, instead of rolling.

Quote:
6. And, I'd like to see my Princess mechanic get formally adopted. The one that places her randomly on the board when drawn. Thematically, it works like this: whenever a player draws Princess it is the equivalent to hearing a dog bark. She is randomly placed on the board and the player draws another survivor card. The first player to reach Princess has the option of acquiring her. Princess is too smart for the zombies and is undetected by the zombies until she is discovered by a squad.


first I heard of the Princess rule. I dig it! Will need to give it a shot!

Quote:

7. Zombie spawning tokens for use with Aftermath



8. Something else that's needed I feel is Zmaster rules for when their is no zmaster (part of the charm of vanilla zpoc is it's non requirement of having a game master). I was actually considering that one could use Zmaster zombies for when you run out of normal zombies on day 3/4. Just add the zmaster zombies(dumb variations of the smarter ones) which would occupy their same point value in zombies, and only come out when the SHTF, aka when you've run out of normal zombies to place on the board.
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David Bernier
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Awesome ideas!

That's what I was trying to remember after a few plays: Zpoc has a effing great base sets of rules to be played like a RPG. That's why i'm gonna stick with it (instead of selling it) since I feel this game can be a lot better than it is.

It's not bad, it's ok for now and posting interesting variants will make this game grow and become ZE zombie game.
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David Bernier
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I love the ammo idea. The blue die is great and can offer a bit more if we come up with an awesome idea.

Quick idea:

- When you attack with a firearm the blue die could do this:

1-4: Normal attack
5: Burst shot = roll 1 additional Red Die
Click!: unchanged
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zee Parks
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Rhezuss wrote:
I love the ammo idea. The blue die is great and can offer a bit more if we come up with an awesome idea.

Quick idea:

- When you attack with a firearm the blue die could do this:

1-4: Normal attack
5: Burst shot = roll 1 additional Red Die
Click!: unchanged

click is #1
2-5 normal
6 = critical hit, (+1 extra die).

burst shot would only make sense for machine guns, which a six shooter, rifle or shotgun wouldn't really make as much sense with.

Being a critical, means that you were able to make a better aimed shot, thus allowing the extra die to be rolled for possible extra damage.
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David Bernier
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zeeparkes wrote:
Rhezuss wrote:
I love the ammo idea. The blue die is great and can offer a bit more if we come up with an awesome idea.

Quick idea:

- When you attack with a firearm the blue die could do this:

1-4: Normal attack
5: Burst shot = roll 1 additional Red Die
Click!: unchanged

click is #1
2-5 normal
6 = critical hit, (+1 extra die).

burst shot would only make sense for machine guns, which a six shooter, rifle or shotgun wouldn't really make as much sense with.

Being a critical, means that you were able to make a better aimed shot, thus allowing the extra die to be rolled for possible extra damage.


Oh you're right heheheh

Or maybe effects could varry depending on the weapon used...

Click!(1) = out of ammo and normal attack
2-5 = Normal attack
6 = depending on the weapon:
- SMGs: Burst shot +1 Red Die
- Rifles: +2 damage...or +2 range?!!?
- Pistols: +1 damage...or nothing
- Shotguns: Spray shot - Damages spreads to the 2 adjacent spaces
 
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David Bernier
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And for melee...could be cool to have a similar mechanic.

Like if you roll at least 1 "Z" it's a Crit and you roll 1 extra Red Die...
 
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zee Parks
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Rhezuss wrote:
zeeparkes wrote:
Rhezuss wrote:
I love the ammo idea. The blue die is great and can offer a bit more if we come up with an awesome idea.

Quick idea:

- When you attack with a firearm the blue die could do this:

1-4: Normal attack
5: Burst shot = roll 1 additional Red Die
Click!: unchanged

click is #1
2-5 normal
6 = critical hit, (+1 extra die).

burst shot would only make sense for machine guns, which a six shooter, rifle or shotgun wouldn't really make as much sense with.

Being a critical, means that you were able to make a better aimed shot, thus allowing the extra die to be rolled for possible extra damage.


Oh you're right heheheh

Or maybe effects could varry depending on the weapon used...

Click!(1) = out of ammo and normal attack
2-5 = Normal attack
6 = depending on the weapon:
- SMGs: +1 Red Die
- Rifles: +1 damage...or +2 range?!!?
- Pistols: +1 damage...or nothing
- Shotguns: Damages spreads to the 2 adjacent spaces


Possibly. Thing is we don't really quantify the difference between the firearms, except via their special abilities.
I'd say, it would be cool if you got a free use of a firearms ability that would normally have required rolling 2 click die or emptying your magazine.

Click!(1) = out of ammo and normal attack
2-5 = Normal attack
6 = depending on the weapon:

since click die are also used for the chainsaw and jackhammer(fuel based weapon) I'd say it would be useful to have an affect that works for everything. Maybe if you roll a 6 on a single click die you get to use the next weapon level up (0-4(untrained)->5(trained)->10(mastery)).

If you are already max level in the weapon, then get a resource ability for free? (Free Autofire or doubletap)?
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Shawn Macleod
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Awesome ideas. I like them.

BTW, anyone going to BGG Con? Perhaps we can have an EPIC game of Zpoc Aftermath!!!
 
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David Bernier
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zeeparkes wrote:
Rhezuss wrote:
zeeparkes wrote:
Rhezuss wrote:
I love the ammo idea. The blue die is great and can offer a bit more if we come up with an awesome idea.

Quick idea:

- When you attack with a firearm the blue die could do this:

1-4: Normal attack
5: Burst shot = roll 1 additional Red Die
Click!: unchanged

click is #1
2-5 normal
6 = critical hit, (+1 extra die).

burst shot would only make sense for machine guns, which a six shooter, rifle or shotgun wouldn't really make as much sense with.

Being a critical, means that you were able to make a better aimed shot, thus allowing the extra die to be rolled for possible extra damage.


Oh you're right heheheh

Or maybe effects could varry depending on the weapon used...

Click!(1) = out of ammo and normal attack
2-5 = Normal attack
6 = depending on the weapon:
- SMGs: +1 Red Die
- Rifles: +1 damage...or +2 range?!!?
- Pistols: +1 damage...or nothing
- Shotguns: Damages spreads to the 2 adjacent spaces


Possibly. Thing is we don't really quantify the difference between the firearms, except via their special abilities.
I'd say, it would be cool if you got a free use of a firearms ability that would normally have required rolling 2 click die or emptying your magazine.

Click!(1) = out of ammo and normal attack
2-5 = Normal attack
6 = depending on the weapon:

since click die are also used for the chainsaw and jackhammer(fuel based weapon) I'd say it would be useful to have an affect that works for everything. Maybe if you roll a 6 on a single click die you get to use the next weapon level up (0-4(untrained)->5(trained)->10(mastery)).

If you are already max level in the weapon, then get a resource ability for free? (Free Autofire or doubletap)?


Oh that is really nice! Using the next level of the weapon on a 6 is really cool!
 
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zee Parks
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macleodsr wrote:
Awesome ideas. I like them.

BTW, anyone going to BGG Con? Perhaps we can have an EPIC game of Zpoc Aftermath!!!


I'm not sure if we're going to BGG con this year. Jeff might, but I dunno. I'm pretty much a PAX East only, though I did hit Gencon for the first time this year. I'll ask the gang tonight if anyone's going.
 
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