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Jeff Rhind
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I've been thinking about picking up Legendary. I have LOTR:LCG and only played it once and felt "meh." I need recommendations on whether I should pickup Dark City as well. Is the game that much different without it?

Thanks for your help.
 
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Evan Dunn
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Try the base game, and if you like it, then pickup dark city. It mostly adds variety.
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Are you not interested in the Star Trek Deck Building Game: The Original Series?

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Brian M
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quietcorn wrote:
Try the base game, and if you like it, then pickup dark city. It mostly adds variety.

Ditto this. The base game has a lot of play value in it on its own, and if you don't like the base game Dark City doesn't have anything that will cause you to like it.
 
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Jim Hansen
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Yeah, try the base game first. If you are getting Legendary to play as pure co-op, you will probably find the base game is too easy. In this case, Dark City is a must buy because it greatly increases the difficulty and makes pure co-op more enjoyable. If you are getting Legendary as a competitive game, Dark City just adds more variety.
 
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Teamjimby wrote:
Yeah, try the base game first. If you are getting Legendary to play as pure co-op, you will probably find the base game is too easy. In this case, Dark City is a must buy because it greatly increases the difficulty and makes pure co-op more enjoyable. If you are getting Legendary as a competitive game, Dark City just adds more variety.


And regarding solo?
 
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Gamer D

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Teamjimby wrote:
Yeah, try the base game first. If you are getting Legendary to play as pure co-op, you will probably find the base game is too easy. In this case, Dark City is a must buy because it greatly increases the difficulty and makes pure co-op more enjoyable. If you are getting Legendary as a competitive game, Dark City just adds more variety.


Quick tip, if you find it a little easy just add +1 to the power rating of the mastermind for all the base game masterminds. In my games than seemed to be about right, we still usually win but not all the time and it's usually close. (You'd be surprised how often that extra +1 keeps you from being able to attack the mastermind!)

I don't think I'd recommend adding power to the Dark Expansion masterminds. They're a bit more difficult than the base game ones. (Still haven't beaten Apocalypse!)
 
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Gamer D

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hyped78 wrote:
Teamjimby wrote:
Yeah, try the base game first. If you are getting Legendary to play as pure co-op, you will probably find the base game is too easy. In this case, Dark City is a must buy because it greatly increases the difficulty and makes pure co-op more enjoyable. If you are getting Legendary as a competitive game, Dark City just adds more variety.


And regarding solo?


They have solo rules but I normally play solo with two characters instead. It's pretty easy to manage two hands of cards and is a fun way to go.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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dugman wrote:
Teamjimby wrote:
Yeah, try the base game first. If you are getting Legendary to play as pure co-op, you will probably find the base game is too easy. In this case, Dark City is a must buy because it greatly increases the difficulty and makes pure co-op more enjoyable. If you are getting Legendary as a competitive game, Dark City just adds more variety.


Quick tip, if you find it a little easy just add +1 to the power rating of the mastermind for all the base game masterminds. In my games than seemed to be about right, we still usually win but not all the time and it's usually close. (You'd be surprised how often that extra +1 keeps you from being able to attack the mastermind!)


I can't really agree with either of those posts. Dark City, apart from Apocalypse, hasn't added difficulty in my experience (44 plays with LDC, 40 with just base). Nor is +1 enough, I'm adding Twists and minimum of +2 (+3 to Skull and Magneto) and they still go down a lot more often than not. Vanilla LDC Masterminds, Sinister, Mephisto and Kingpin have never lost to, even against Apo I think I'm at 50% win ratio, which given my apprehension about him initially, I'm happy with.
 
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Matt Brown
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hyped78 wrote:
Teamjimby wrote:
Yeah, try the base game first. If you are getting Legendary to play as pure co-op, you will probably find the base game is too easy. In this case, Dark City is a must buy because it greatly increases the difficulty and makes pure co-op more enjoyable. If you are getting Legendary as a competitive game, Dark City just adds more variety.


And regarding solo?


Solo play is suppose to be even easier. I found the game to be decent but nothing more.
 
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Jim Hansen
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dugman wrote:
Teamjimby wrote:
Yeah, try the base game first. If you are getting Legendary to play as pure co-op, you will probably find the base game is too easy. In this case, Dark City is a must buy because it greatly increases the difficulty and makes pure co-op more enjoyable. If you are getting Legendary as a competitive game, Dark City just adds more variety.


Quick tip, if you find it a little easy just add +1 to the power rating of the mastermind for all the base game masterminds. In my games than seemed to be about right, we still usually win but not all the time and it's usually close. (You'd be surprised how often that extra +1 keeps you from being able to attack the mastermind!)

I don't think I'd recommend adding power to the Dark Expansion masterminds. They're a bit more difficult than the base game ones. (Still haven't beaten Apocalypse!)

True, you could do that. Although I find that solution less satisfying. Mainly, I like that fighting the DC masterminds gives you a penalty instead of a bonus. Also, they tend to have cooler abilities.

Regarding solo play, I haven't tried it so I can't comment.
 
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Jim Hansen
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Dam the Man wrote:
dugman wrote:
Teamjimby wrote:
Yeah, try the base game first. If you are getting Legendary to play as pure co-op, you will probably find the base game is too easy. In this case, Dark City is a must buy because it greatly increases the difficulty and makes pure co-op more enjoyable. If you are getting Legendary as a competitive game, Dark City just adds more variety.


Quick tip, if you find it a little easy just add +1 to the power rating of the mastermind for all the base game masterminds. In my games than seemed to be about right, we still usually win but not all the time and it's usually close. (You'd be surprised how often that extra +1 keeps you from being able to attack the mastermind!)


I can't really agree with either of those posts. Dark City, apart from Apocalypse, hasn't added difficulty in my experience (44 plays with LDC, 40 with just base). Nor is +1 enough, I'm adding Twists and minimum of +2 (+3 to Skull and Magneto) and they still go down a lot more often than not. Vanilla LDC Masterminds, Sinister, Mephisto and Kingpin have never lost to, even against Apo I think I'm at 50% win ratio, which given my apprehension about him initially, I'm happy with.

Even with DC, I still wouldn't call it difficult. And difficulty depends a lot on how many players you have. 2 is much easier than 5, imo, and I almost exclusively play with 2. With just the base game, I win at least 95% of the time and 90% of the time it's not close. With DC, I think I still win ~90% of the time, but it's a close game at least half the time.
 
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Gamer D

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Teamjimby wrote:
dugman wrote:
Teamjimby wrote:
Yeah, try the base game first. If you are getting Legendary to play as pure co-op, you will probably find the base game is too easy. In this case, Dark City is a must buy because it greatly increases the difficulty and makes pure co-op more enjoyable. If you are getting Legendary as a competitive game, Dark City just adds more variety.


Quick tip, if you find it a little easy just add +1 to the power rating of the mastermind for all the base game masterminds. In my games than seemed to be about right, we still usually win but not all the time and it's usually close. (You'd be surprised how often that extra +1 keeps you from being able to attack the mastermind!)

I don't think I'd recommend adding power to the Dark Expansion masterminds. They're a bit more difficult than the base game ones. (Still haven't beaten Apocalypse!)

True, you could do that. Although I find that solution less satisfying. Mainly, I like that fighting the DC masterminds gives you a penalty instead of a bonus. Also, they tend to have cooler abilities.

Regarding solo play, I haven't tried it so I can't comment.


Less satisfying than what? You implied you prefer to do something else but I'm not sure what you're saying you do instead, unless you mean you prefer to just leave all the masterminds alone the normal difficulty. (Which is fine, everybody has different tastes in difficulty.)
 
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Dam the Man wrote:
dugman wrote:
Teamjimby wrote:
Yeah, try the base game first. If you are getting Legendary to play as pure co-op, you will probably find the base game is too easy. In this case, Dark City is a must buy because it greatly increases the difficulty and makes pure co-op more enjoyable. If you are getting Legendary as a competitive game, Dark City just adds more variety.


Quick tip, if you find it a little easy just add +1 to the power rating of the mastermind for all the base game masterminds. In my games than seemed to be about right, we still usually win but not all the time and it's usually close. (You'd be surprised how often that extra +1 keeps you from being able to attack the mastermind!)


I can't really agree with either of those posts. Dark City, apart from Apocalypse, hasn't added difficulty in my experience (44 plays with LDC, 40 with just base). Nor is +1 enough, I'm adding Twists and minimum of +2 (+3 to Skull and Magneto) and they still go down a lot more often than not. Vanilla LDC Masterminds, Sinister, Mephisto and Kingpin have never lost to, even against Apo I think I'm at 50% win ratio, which given my apprehension about him initially, I'm happy with.


DC masterminds are definitely slightly harder. That doesn't mean they're hard, just harder. The DC masterminds all have tougher negative tactics in particular compared to the base game masterminds who sometimes have beneficial tactics when you beat them. Apocalypse is definitely the toughest of them, with his tactic that must be the final tactic or it goes back under his card. That alone means you have to beat him more times than the others on average.

Anyway I like +1 because I still usually win but it's close and if I'm unlucky they can win. If you want to lose more often, though, just add more power or twists, there's a section in the rules for upping difficulty.

 
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Jim Hansen
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dugman wrote:
Teamjimby wrote:
True, you could do that. Although I find that solution less satisfying. Mainly, I like that fighting the DC masterminds gives you a penalty instead of a bonus. Also, they tend to have cooler abilities.

Regarding solo play, I haven't tried it so I can't comment.


Less satisfying than what? You implied you prefer to do something else but I'm not sure what you're saying you do instead, unless you mean you prefer to just leave all the masterminds alone the normal difficulty. (Which is fine, everybody has different tastes in difficulty.)

Less satisfying than using the DC masterminds. If I'm just using the base set, I usually add in all of the scheme twists instead.
 
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Gamer D

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Teamjimby wrote:
dugman wrote:
Teamjimby wrote:
True, you could do that. Although I find that solution less satisfying. Mainly, I like that fighting the DC masterminds gives you a penalty instead of a bonus. Also, they tend to have cooler abilities.

Regarding solo play, I haven't tried it so I can't comment.


Less satisfying than what? You implied you prefer to do something else but I'm not sure what you're saying you do instead, unless you mean you prefer to just leave all the masterminds alone the normal difficulty. (Which is fine, everybody has different tastes in difficulty.)

Less satisfying than using the DC masterminds. If I'm just using the base set, I usually add in all of the scheme twists instead.


Ah I see, you don't use the base game masterminds then, just the expansion ones. I like to mix everything together personally.
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Jeff Rhind
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No. Don't let my avatar fool you.

I'm Captain Kirk!!!"
 
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Jeff Rhind
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OK, so I should've added that I would be playing alot of this solo.

And the bigger question...is Sentinels a better place to put my money?

Thanks.
 
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I've only played Legendary a few times, and only once with Dark City, but I wouldn't recommend it as a pure co-op experience. There isn't a lot you can do mechanically to help out the other players, and it's difficult for players to specialize their decks due to the random nature of the cards that come out to purchase.

What didn't you like about the LotR LCG? Are you specifically looking for some kind of co-op deck building type game?
 
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dugman wrote:
hyped78 wrote:
Teamjimby wrote:
Yeah, try the base game first. If you are getting Legendary to play as pure co-op, you will probably find the base game is too easy. In this case, Dark City is a must buy because it greatly increases the difficulty and makes pure co-op more enjoyable. If you are getting Legendary as a competitive game, Dark City just adds more variety.


And regarding solo?


They have solo rules but I normally play solo with two characters instead. It's pretty easy to manage two hands of cards and is a fun way to go.


I think this is tedious and takes the fun out. I had Legendary with the expansion but got rid of it. Way too much prep time to play. If you don't mind that than take everyone's advice and start with the base game. If you do make sure to download the dark city rules as there are some ways to scale the difficulty which will be needed for solo play, otherwise it's too easy. Also there is a great solo variant in the forums here as well.
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Gamer D

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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
dugman wrote:
hyped78 wrote:
Teamjimby wrote:
Yeah, try the base game first. If you are getting Legendary to play as pure co-op, you will probably find the base game is too easy. In this case, Dark City is a must buy because it greatly increases the difficulty and makes pure co-op more enjoyable. If you are getting Legendary as a competitive game, Dark City just adds more variety.


And regarding solo?


They have solo rules but I normally play solo with two characters instead. It's pretty easy to manage two hands of cards and is a fun way to go.


I think this is tedious and takes the fun out. ...


We'll have to agree to disagree then, I think it's more fun than playing a single character.
 
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jeffrhind wrote:
OK, so I should've added that I would be playing alot of this solo.

And the bigger question...is Sentinels a better place to put my money?

Thanks.


Hmm, Sentinels versus Legendary is a tough call. Aside from both being (semi-)cooperative superhero card games they basically have nothing in common, other than that they're both really fun.

For solo play, I think Legendary is simpler to mentally manage. You can solo one or two characters fairly easily. Sentinels is a more complex game and you'll basically have to play at least three characters minimum simultaneously. That's still a lot of fun, but it's harder to keep track of everything that's going on and takes a bit longer to play out.

But really they're both great games and with expansions they both have a TON of cards to spice things up. Sentinels is pure coop and you each play a single superhero with a unique deck versus a villain that has a unique deck of their own in a location that has a unique deck as well. Sentinels is quicker to set up and has simpler basic rules than Legendary, but many of the cards in Sentinels interact with each other in various ways which makes keeping track of all the various card effects a bit tricky sometimes. But that also means it makes for a deeper strategic game, which is cool.


Here are some differences that might help:

- Legendary is deck building, Sentinels is prebuilt decks

- Legendary is lighter. Villains don't have "hit points" and card effects generally don't hang around after the turn you play them. Sentinels is a heavier game, requiring you to keep track of hit points on targets and manage ongoing card effects that persist from turn to turn.

- Legendary can be play either semi-cooperatively or full coop. Sentinels is only full coop.

- Legendary is Marvel characters, Sentinels is its own universe which has characters similar to popular comics.

- In Legendary you use Shield agents to recruit superheroes to fight the villains. In Sentinels you each play a superhero. In both games you are fighting an NPC mastermind and his minions.

- Legendary takes longer to set up and put away than Sentinels.

- Both games take about 60-90 minutes to play or so.

- Both games have expansions with lots and lots of cards and new expansions on the way.

- Both games got good critical reviews and are relatively close in the BGG rankings last I checked.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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dugman wrote:
- Both games take about 60-90 minutes to play or so.


I've yet to have a Legendary play go past 60 minutes, 45 minutes is probably the norm.

Just for kicks, as I was bored/found time on my hands, charted my win-loss records for all the Masterminds and all the Schemes (number in parenthesis with just base game), 86 plays so far (40 with base, 46 with LDC):

Apocalypse: 3-2
Dr. Doom: 9-6 (6-4)
Kingpin: 5-0
Loki: 8-7 (5-5)
Magneto: 10-5 (6-4)
Mephisto: 5-0
Mr. Sinister: 5-0
Red Skull: 15-1 (9-1)
Stryfe: 4-1

Capture Baby Hope: 3-0
Detonate the Helicarrier: 2-0
Massive Earthquake Generator: 2-1
Midtown Bank Robbery: 7-0 (5-0)
Negative Zone Prison Breakout: 8-0 (5-0)
Organized Crime Wave: 2-1
Portals to the Dark Dimension: 4-4 (1-4)
Replace Earth's Leaders with Killbots: 8-0 (5-0)
Save Humanity: 2-1
Secret Invation of the Skrull Shapeshifters: 8-0 (5-0)
Steal the Weaponized Plutonium: 3-0
Super Hero Civil War: 2-6 (1-4)
The Legacy Virus: 2-6 (1-4)
Transform Citizens Into Demons: 2-1
Unleash the Power of the Cosmic Cube: 6-2 (3-2)
X-Cutioner's Song: 3-0

Some surprising notices, took me four attempts to beat Portals to the Dark Dimension blush and Loki + Legacy Virus have been paired up five times already cry .

Even so, base game has easily, for me, the three toughest Schemes and after adding Dark City, have only lost 8 out of 46 plays vs base game and its 14 losses in 40 plays. Apart from Apocalypse, the new Masterminds are as easy as base game ones, hell, more losses against base game ones (though they are beefed up a bit these days). More likely down to more and more powerful heroes, meaning of course, annoying fillers like Spider-Man get seen less devil . But LDC making Legendary harder isn't what my stats are showing me at all.
 
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Jeff Rhind
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This was helpful. Thank you. The biggest problem with LOTR:LCG was the complexity of turn phases, as a new player to card games, put me off. I assume in time, the more I play the more I would remember but I don't think I'm bred to memorize card actions. The other problem was the text on the cards is hard for me to read because of my eyesight. So I though the less text on the Legendary cards might be easier.
 
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