Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Innovation» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Yet another "Is this card too powerful" thread. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Moe45673
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
If you're the leader in factories and have machine tools, is it pretty much game over, or at least a very close game?

Machine Tools
Red. [Factory], [Factory], [Hexagon, a cog], [Factory].

[Factory]: Draw and score a card of value equal to
the highest card in your score pile.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
DC
United States
Grand Rapids
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Factory doesn't prevent anyone else from gaining more factories (it doesn't hurt other players), so others could catch up to you.

To gain more points, you'll have to use your actions on Factory. You'll need to use it at least once for each of achievements 1 - 5 (assuming they're still available), and at least twice for each of 6 - 10. Then you'll need to use an action to actually achieve. That's at least 1 turn, more likely 2, per achievement. It's a good deal, but not extremely fast.

It can be slowed or stopped cold by any other player's cards which remove cards from your tableau, or from your score pile.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Klinck
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's a card that should be dealt with immediately, by:
- Getting rid of it.
- Getting rid of the high cards in the player's score pile.
- Catching up in factories.
- Claiming regular achievements so that they can't win by claiming the remaining regular achievements.

Innovation is really a game of "localized advantage". The advice I give to new players at the end of teaching is: If you get an advantage in a particular area, exploit it until someone stops you. If someone is exploiting an advantage, stop them.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Lane
Canada
Victoria
BC
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I dunno, what does the other player(s) have in his/her/their score pile(s)/board/hand? What else are you the leader in? What are they leading in? By how much? How much are you leading factories by? What is the number of cards in each pile? How many players? How many achievements do you have vs. your opponent(s)?

Short answer, no, this card isn't too powerful. Just about anything can be used to grab an edge in this game given the right circumstances. If someone is draining your biggest cards from your score pile, Machine Tools isn't going to be very scary if it's just adding 1's and 2's.

Don't forget, score is just a means to an end - get enough to achieve and achieve. If you spend all your time getting score but don't tech up enough to achieve that next level, then those points do exactly nothing for you unless someone draws 11. Also, there's a lot of alternate victory conditions in ages 9 and 10 (including the person with the fewest points wins).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian B.
United States
Boston
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
char(filter(1,[1 -1],[66 5 0 -39 82 -3 -12 8 8 -82]))
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Like with many cards, I've had people get this card and sail to victory quickly by using it many times and people get it and never be able to use it. It's all about the situation in the game at the time.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Moe45673
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Thanks for all your opinions. I kinda suspected this but my opponent and I both won our games by exploiting this card. I then used another card (I forget which) to steal his 3 highest hand cards, one was a 9. I melded the 9 and in my last turn achieved ages 8 and 9, FTW.

It was a close game though. He had the first three achievements and had 5 when I went for the win
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fernando Robert Yu
Philippines
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have just gotten this game (the IELLO version) and have had 3 plays of it. The first one was a 2P game, and it was close and down to the wire!

The last 2 I just played a while ago. Both were 4P games, and both were dominated by a single card, which was Agriculture. The card was brought out early, and in both games the player (not the same guy) simply dominated by drawing a card, then getting rid of it and then scoring a card which was 1 age higher than the discarded card. As the tree symbol was hard to get that early, Agriculture simply dominated, and the first 4 achievements were taken by the winner quite quickly.

Did we play this right, or is this occurrence a freak thing?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian B.
United States
Boston
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
badge
char(filter(1,[1 -1],[66 5 0 -39 82 -3 -12 8 8 -82]))
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
How did the winner get an age 4 card on their board to be able to take the 4th achievement?
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Cheng
Taiwan
Taipei City
n/a
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
LiteBulb88 wrote:
How did the winner get an age 4 card on their board to be able to take the 4th achievement?


Yeah, if you think Agri is too strong, make sure you remember the rule for taking achievement. (Of course, with 4p, maybe the dude just get lucky when he shares someone's dogma)

Agriculture is ok in the early game, but if you're just drawing and scoring, then pretty fast you will be behind on your tablet and your icon. That often spells doom for your future prospective.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fernando Robert Yu
Philippines
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
LiteBulb88 wrote:
How did the winner get an age 4 card on their board to be able to take the 4th achievement?


Ah forgot that you needed to have a card of that age played in order to score the achievement....no wonder it felt something was amiss!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
badge
The next Total Solar Eclipse holiday in 2024 in USA? See you there!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
freddieyu wrote:
Ah forgot that you needed to have a card of that age played in order to score the achievement....


And not only played, you need at that moment an active (top) card that is the same or higher than the age achievement. (You can lose active cards for several reasons and effects.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.