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Hammer of the Scots» Forums » General

Subject: PILLAGE PROBLEM rss

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Freddy Dekker
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I've got a Scottish army in Lennox.

In Lanark there is an English army of 3 noble, down to one point caused by previous desastrous battles.

So the pillage cards is played for the Scots.
This means that the English in Lanark lose another 2 points.

{I'm assuming the 2 points are the total for the whole army and that the player that gets hit by it can decide which units lose points, or is it applied the same as in combat?}

Now the result causes two nobles to change sides.
So they become Scots.
But I now have 2 Scots and one English block in Lanark.

As I understand it the blocks change sides where they are, so they don't go in the force pool.
So what happens, according to the rules the turncoats can only fight for the new cause in the next turn.

So am I right in assuming there will be an automatic combat next turn?
As you can't move into contested areas you can't reinforce the units.

So next combat phase, hostilities in Lanark and lets say the defender has a luck break and score two hits.
This than would mean the nobles change sides again and things are back to as they were.

Just checking something else concerning combat.
Am I right in understanding that during combat a unit can, when it is it's turn to throw the dice, can retreat instead?
 
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David Hammond
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So first off, hits are applied as combat for pillage. Everything else looks right, except:

Quote:
As you can't move into contested areas you can't reinforce the units.


Since the action card happens before the movement phase, I'm pretty sure you can move armies into the potential battle area. They would just arrive as "reinforcements" in the second round of combat.

But let's say they aren't reinforced and Lanarck defenders score two hits - then yes, the nobles flip again.
 
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Jeff Johnson
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My understanding is that when units change sides from an event (Herald or Pillage or crowning a Scots king) the battle is fought immediately, with the defecting units as attacker. So there's no chance to reinforce, and the nobles may very well just get converted back on a good roll.
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Freddy Dekker
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So David, that now means I've completely missunderstood the action cards?

As I understood it both sides decide which card they want to play in the card phase.
So if you pick a numbered card that means you can move that number of armies around.

Now, as I've understood it, when you pick an event card which does not indicate any movement action this means you have chosen not to move this turn but play the event.

So as I understand it, playing the pillage cards means I'll do some harm to the enemy in an area next to myne, but I do not actually move anything.

If what you are saying is correct this would mean I play the event and than I get to play an extra card for movement?

That doesn't seem right to me.
 
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David Hammond
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Actually, I think Jeff might be right on this one - the action card battle should resolve immediately.

Sorry - that's what I get for attempting to answer off the cuff without consulting the rules!
 
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Freddy Dekker
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Jeff, I read somewhere in the rules that when a noble changes sides, he is placed in the reserve and can not be used until the next turn.

Must go check if I've not missunderstood.
Next turn doesn't mean next year, unless ofcourse this was your third turn of the year.
Unless with turn they do not mean one of the three turns you have in a year, but one of the three turns you have during a battle...

So that makes things even more confusing.

I've used the event card, this caused mahem amongst the enemies armies, making 2 nobles in Lanark become Scottish, while one remained English.
So there has not been a battle sofar.

but ofcourse as 2 different armies can not exist in the same region, the situation according to the rules now forces the troops in Lanark into combat.
So as an instant effect of the card [in this case] combat will occur in Lanark [after which we than move to the momvement phase of the other player]

But, as the rules say, the turned noble can only come into action on behalf of his new lord in the next turn, or is this an exception on that rule?
Or am I to understand the loyal noble gets one free attack before the combats 2nd turn starts in which the turned nobles can become active.

Hope you are still getting this as it does sound somewhat confusing.
 
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Jeff Johnson
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The go-to-reserve-for-a-round is what happens if a noble is killed during a battle.

If a noble switches sides due to an event (pillage, herald, crowning a king) and they occupy a region with now-hostile blocks, they cause a battle, resolved immediately, with the traitorous noble as attacker.

So: 2 cards are revealed. Say, Pillage and a 2.

Pillage card is first player. He picks a region, casualties are applied, and if one or more nobles are killed/converted, AND there are still other unconverted blocks there, they fight a battle right now (converted nobles are the attacker). During the battle, if a noble is killed, it changes sides and goes into reserve for a battle round. This might happen twice in the battle to the same unit! But eventually the battle is resolved, and only one side is left in the region.

Then the other side plays its two group moves, and resolves battles they initiated. Again, nobles can switch sides during these battles.
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Freddy Dekker
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Yeah, thatwas an other confusing thing, from reading the rulrs I got the impression both sides first move and than you fight battles.
It seems to methatreserves arecontrarytothe rules.

If I move into enemy teritory, this would mean I can't move moretroops in as you can't move into a contested area.
 
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Jeff Johnson
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sagitar wrote:
Yeah, thatwas an other confusing thing, from reading the rulrs I got the impression both sides first move and than you fight battles.


They do, normally. Noble defections due to events are a special case and can cause a battle to occur out of sequence. This doesn't happen very often - crowning a Scottish king is the usual cause, and most games don't see that happen (and the Scots can often manage things so the defecting nobles get massacred by accompanying troops and converted back, anyhow).

sagitar wrote:
It seems to me that reserves are contrary to the rules.

If I move into enemy teritory, this would mean I can't move more troops in as you can't move into a contested area.


You can always move into a contested area. You just cant move through - you must stop whenever you enter an area with enemy blocks.

Reserves are just secondary forces who arrive late - reinforcements for the defender, or additional attacking forces for the attacker.

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Shayne Richards
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Jeff is correct
 
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Freddy Dekker
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Thanks Jeff
 
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Forest Green Hobbit
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Oakfed wrote:
My understanding is that when units change sides from an event (Herald or Pillage or crowning a Scots king) the battle is fought immediately, with the defecting units as attacker. So there's no chance to reinforce, and the nobles may very well just get converted back on a good roll.


Although not specificlly in the rules, I believe Jeff is correct.
 
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