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Subject: Atheism vs Theism vs Agnosticsism vs Gnosticism rss

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J
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I saw this on BoingBoing:

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Chad Ellis
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I'm guessing the cartoonist is an agnostic atheist. Both the gnostics look smug/arrogant and the agnostic theist looks befuddled -- and I've yet to meet someone who believes in God but would describe the alternative as, "They're just silly stories."
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Oh no, both of the Atheists have beards, too! What kinda crap is this guy tryin' ta pull??
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
I've yet to meet someone who believes in God but would describe the alternative as, "They're just silly stories."


This is a common Freemason posture.

The bible is a mixed up and confused pile of stuff that got screwed up along the way.

But there's a kernel of God in it.
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b a n j o wrote:
What about if you don't believe in god(s), nor do you NOT believe in god(s)?


A mollusk.
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Blorb Plorbst
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What if you only think about it when it's brought up in RSP?
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Mac Mcleod
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das Andere wrote:
b a n j o wrote:
What about if you don't believe in god(s), nor do you NOT believe in god(s)?


A mollusk.


As in, don't mollusk me for my religious beleifs.
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CrankyPants wrote:
What if you only think about it when it's brought up in RSP?


A narcissistic mollusk.
 
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das Andere wrote:
CrankyPants wrote:
What if you only think about it when it's brought up in RSP?


A narcissistic mollusk.


What's narcissistic about that?

Anyway, replace "God" with "Unicorns" and then replace "God" with "Trees" and you'll find that the Agnostics come off sounding like idiots in both cases.

And that's my opinion on agnosticism.
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CrankyPants wrote:
das Andere wrote:
CrankyPants wrote:
What if you only think about it when it's brought up in RSP?


A narcissistic mollusk.


What's narcissistic about that?


I just assumed everyone that posts in RSP is a bit narcissistic. "Hey, everyone, look at me, my opinions matter!"

I guess I just ruined the joke though.
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das Andere wrote:
CrankyPants wrote:
das Andere wrote:
CrankyPants wrote:
What if you only think about it when it's brought up in RSP?


A narcissistic mollusk.


What's narcissistic about that?


I just assumed everyone that posts in RSP is a bit narcissistic. "Hey, everyone, look at me, my opinions matter!"

I guess I just ruined the joke though.


Most jokes are not ruined but forgotten.
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CrankyPants wrote:
das Andere wrote:
CrankyPants wrote:
What if you only think about it when it's brought up in RSP?


A narcissistic mollusk.


What's narcissistic about that?

Anyway, replace "God" with "Unicorns" and then replace "God" with "Trees" and you'll find that the Agnostics come off sounding like idiots in both cases.

And that's my opinion on agnosticism.



Replace "God" with "Love" or "Hope" or "Quarks".

I don't believe, but you are crossing the abstract with the concrete. To be fair it should be immaterial to immaterial comparisons.
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maxo-texas wrote:
CrankyPants wrote:
das Andere wrote:
CrankyPants wrote:
What if you only think about it when it's brought up in RSP?


A narcissistic mollusk.


What's narcissistic about that?

Anyway, replace "God" with "Unicorns" and then replace "God" with "Trees" and you'll find that the Agnostics come off sounding like idiots in both cases.

And that's my opinion on agnosticism.



Replace "God" with "Love" or "Hope" or "Quarks".

I don't believe, but you are crossing the abstract with the concrete. To be fair it should be immaterial to immaterial comparisons.


"immaterial to immaterial" doesn't seem quite right here to me.
"love" and "hope" exist because we blieve (in) them. They come into existence because of us and through us. "hope" exists simply as soon as someone claims to "hope", nobody would then claim that that hope isn't "real". If i say i "love" someone, then that love is real, or it might be a lie, but it sure isn't eithe rin the category of something that might me real or maybe not.

Or maybe this is just arguing about semantics.

and i'm really not sure where in the bible it says that god is immaterial…

crankypants is on to something…
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dennisthebadger wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
CrankyPants wrote:
das Andere wrote:
CrankyPants wrote:
What if you only think about it when it's brought up in RSP?


A narcissistic mollusk.


What's narcissistic about that?

Anyway, replace "God" with "Unicorns" and then replace "God" with "Trees" and you'll find that the Agnostics come off sounding like idiots in both cases.

And that's my opinion on agnosticism.



Replace "God" with "Love" or "Hope" or "Quarks".

I don't believe, but you are crossing the abstract with the concrete. To be fair it should be immaterial to immaterial comparisons.


"immaterial to immaterial" doesn't seem quite right here to me.
"love" and "hope" exist because we blieve (in) them. They come into existence because of us and through us. "hope" exists simply as soon as someone claims to "hope", nobody would then claim that that hope isn't "real". If i say i "love" someone, then that love is real, or it might be a lie, but it sure isn't eithe rin the category of something that might me real or maybe not.

Or maybe this is just arguing about semantics.


You beat me to it and probably said it better than I would. Abstract concepts exist because we define them as such. They lack physical definition but they exist in that we assign the "word" to the idea.

Abstract signifiers like "Love" and "Hope" point to ideas that I have experienced so I can affirm that they exist (even if they're really just by-products of neurotransmitters). And even though others might experience them differently we have some general consensus of their meaning.

I believe in the signifier "God" - I understand it exists as a concept - just like I believe in the idea of "Unicorn". But those ideas are usually understood to exist outside of our personal experience. For me, that final claim of "persistence" is what, for me, requires proof by the claimant.

ramble ramble ramble
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Hasn't this come up before? Wasn't it decided that anyone on the right side is a moron?
 
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CrankyPants wrote:
dennisthebadger wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
CrankyPants wrote:
das Andere wrote:
CrankyPants wrote:
What if you only think about it when it's brought up in RSP?


A narcissistic mollusk.


What's narcissistic about that?

Anyway, replace "God" with "Unicorns" and then replace "God" with "Trees" and you'll find that the Agnostics come off sounding like idiots in both cases.

And that's my opinion on agnosticism.



Replace "God" with "Love" or "Hope" or "Quarks".

I don't believe, but you are crossing the abstract with the concrete. To be fair it should be immaterial to immaterial comparisons.


"immaterial to immaterial" doesn't seem quite right here to me.
"love" and "hope" exist because we blieve (in) them. They come into existence because of us and through us. "hope" exists simply as soon as someone claims to "hope", nobody would then claim that that hope isn't "real". If i say i "love" someone, then that love is real, or it might be a lie, but it sure isn't eithe rin the category of something that might me real or maybe not.

Or maybe this is just arguing about semantics.


You beat me to it and probably said it better than I would. Abstract concepts exist because we define them as such. They lack physical definition but they exist in that we assign the "word" to the idea.

Abstract signifiers like "Love" and "Hope" point to ideas that I have experienced so I can affirm that they exist (even if they're really just by-products of neurotransmitters). And even though others might experience them differently we have some general consensus of their meaning.

I believe in the signifier "God" - I understand it exists as a concept - just like I believe in the idea of "Unicorn". But those ideas are usually understood to exist outside of our personal experience. For me, that final claim of "persistence" is what, for me, requires proof by the claimant.

ramble ramble ramble


Barr barr barr... snrt!
 
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maxo-texas wrote:



Replace "God" with "Love" or "Hope" or "Quarks".

I don't believe, but you are crossing the abstract with the concrete. To be fair it should be immaterial to immaterial comparisons.


If god were meant to be "just" an abstraction I don't think anyone would be arguing whether or not it exists. Love or Hope aren't anything over and above what people experience them to be. There is no one entity called Love or Hope which we all have a common experience of - it's an abstraction based on people trying to categorize and understand their feelings and experiences.

God, however, is supposed to be something over and above what people claim to experience. God isn't meant to be some sort of catchall term used to encapsulate man's religious experiences - it's supposed to be the singular and unified source of those experiences. At least to those who believe in such things.

At any rate I'd have to say agnosticism is the only way to go. God, as far as I can tell, isn't a sufficiently well defined enough concept (or even a coherent one for that matter) for us to be able to devise any sort of test that could begin to answer the question: does god exist?

May as well ask does oaishgiah exist for all the good it will do you.
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This is kind of a false dichotomy between "I think this is true but honestly I have no idea" and "I am 100% certain."

I'm really pretty certain that no god exists, but on the other hand, since I only apprehend the world through my senses and recognize the limitations of that system, I would have to say that I'm not completely certain of that fact. I think I'm a lot further from "this is what I believe but really who knows" and "I am 100% sure this is correct" I'm way closer to the 100% sure line, but nobody should ever say that they're 100% sure about anything, I mean, know your limitations.
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rylfrazier wrote:
This is kind of a false dichotomy between "I think this is true but honestly I have no idea" and "I am 100% certain."

I'm really pretty certain that no god exists, but on the other hand, since I only apprehend the world through my senses and recognize the limitations of that system, I would have to say that I'm not completely certain of that fact. I think I'm a lot further from "this is what I believe but really who knows" and "I am 100% sure this is correct" I'm way closer to the 100% sure line, but nobody should ever say that they're 100% sure about anything, I mean, know your limitations.


Which brings us into the realm of Solipsism because "I might just be a frog dreaming I'm a football which is dreaming I'm a person!".

I'm not above saying "Sure, why not!" to such a statement but it offers no practical direction on how to live our lives.

I live as if I'm 100% certain that God doesn't exist, just like I live as if I were 100% certain that Santa Claus isn't watching me when I'm sleeping (weirdo).

And I make no difference between acting with 100% certainty and believing with 100% certainty.
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After 30 years of arguing it on the internet, sometime about 4 or 5 years ago I finally slid solidly into the upper right bearded and snooty camp.

Sans the beard.

But I can be very snooty. very.



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Chad_Ellis wrote:
I'm guessing the cartoonist is an agnostic atheist. Both the gnostics look smug/arrogant and the agnostic theist looks befuddled -- and I've yet to meet someone who believes in God but would describe the alternative as, "They're just silly stories."


The gnostics look smug or arrogant to you? They simply look confident and wise to this gnostic atheist.
 
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maxo-texas wrote:
After 30 years of arguing it on the internet, sometime about 4 or 5 years ago I finally slid solidly into the upper right bearded and snooty camp.

Sans the beard.

But I can be very snooty. very.





Same here... except I recently grew a beard. cool
 
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"mocking".

Some other references list it as "smug" so that might be what the artist was going for.

The left sides look like "curious" above and "embarrassed" on the bottom.


 
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mrspank wrote:
Chad_Ellis wrote:
I'm guessing the cartoonist is an agnostic atheist. Both the gnostics look smug/arrogant and the agnostic theist looks befuddled -- and I've yet to meet someone who believes in God but would describe the alternative as, "They're just silly stories."


The gnostics look smug or arrogant to you? They simply look confident and wise to this gnostic atheist.

Fuckin pastafarians, think they know everything!
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das Andere wrote:
CrankyPants wrote:
das Andere wrote:
CrankyPants wrote:
What if you only think about it when it's brought up in RSP?


A narcissistic mollusk.


What's narcissistic about that?


I just assumed everyone that posts in RSP is a bit narcissistic. "Hey, everyone, look at me, my opinions matter!"

I guess I just ruined the joke though.
Mine don't.
 
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