Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Cthulhu Fluxx» Forums » Variants

Subject: Jesus vs Cthulhu rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Winston Crutchfield
United States
Indiana
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
I was given Cthulhu Fluxx as a gift, my first introduction to the game. Shortly after, I saw Christian Fluxx and picked it up with an eye to adding it to the box.

I quickly discovered that it doesn't mix perfectly. There are seven cards in the set:

Action - Bible Verses: no modification needed
New Rule - Cross Bonus: no modification needed
Goal - The Story of Jesus: no modification needed
Goal - Jesus Loves You: the "Love" Keeper is required, but is not in Cthulhu Fluxx
Goal - Church Time: the "Time" Keeper is required, but is not in Cthulhu Fluxx
Keeper - The Cross: no modification strictly needed
Keeper - The Bible: no modification strictly needed

My goal is to make the cards more usable with Cthulhu Fluxx. I think "Bible Verses", "Cross Bonus", and "The Story of Jesus" are just fine to use as is. I would like to modify "Jesus Loves You" and "Church Time" to use Cthulhu cards. I would like to modify "The Cross" and "The Bible" to be more usable with Cthulhu.

I have these changes in mind:
"Jesus Loves You" - use "The Tomb" or "The Body" instead of "Love"
"Church Time" - use "Metamorphosis" or "The Professor" instead of "Time"
"The Cross" - Anti-Doom x3, May conceal multiple Creepers, removing them from play, up to 3 Doom in total value.
"The Bible" - Anti-Doom x2, Creepers attached to this player's Investigators are detached and discarded.

Thoughts or suggestions?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
S. R.
Germany
Mainz
Rheinland-Pfalz
flag msg tools
It's a fearful thing, to fall into the Hands of the Living God!
badge
Tell me, have you found the Yellow Sign?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My thoughts are thematic, so wouldn't help you much. But if you still want to read them, go on...

I think that it is thematically problematic to combine the concepts of Christianity with the concept of the Mythos.
The Mythos "world" is a nihilistic one, where nothing makes sense, and the idea of sense altogether is faulty. There is no reason, no good or bad, just reality. There is no hope.
The Christian "world view", however, states that each life has meaning, that there is sense to it all (even if we don't understand it yet), there is a force of good (and possibly a force of evil), and that ultimately good will win (it's up to you whether you are on the same ship or not). Hope is real.
If you now combine those two (and please, understand, this is not about ridiculing a belief, or somesuch), you either negate the nihilistic world of the Mythos, or you make the Christian God "just another powerful being" - or condemn the Mythos entities to be "just the baddies" - monsters, demons and devils. Both versions are not true to their concepts...

However, in the end, it is just a game. What's more, it is your game. So do whatever you like. I wouldn't, and wouldn't even want to play it, but that is just me...
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mindspike wrote:
Goal - Jesus Loves You: the "Love" Keeper is required, but is not in Cthulhu Fluxx
Goal - Church Time: the "Time" Keeper is required, but is not in Cthulhu Fluxx

I would like to modify "Jesus Loves You" and "Church Time" to use Cthulhu cards.

Thoughts or suggestions?

I'm confused: if you are already adding some Goal cards from a different set, why not simply add the corresponding Keeper cards from the different set as well?

Or you could choose to just accept that those goals are unachievable - this might make thematic sense in the hopeless nihilistic Lovecraftian setting.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United Kingdom
Belfast
Northern Ireland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I tend to agree with Dumon that it's just not a very good fit. The best solution if you want to use Christian Fluxx is just to get the original Fluxx, IMO.

russ wrote:
mindspike wrote:
Goal - Jesus Loves You: the "Love" Keeper is required, but is not in Cthulhu Fluxx
Goal - Church Time: the "Time" Keeper is required, but is not in Cthulhu Fluxx

I would like to modify "Jesus Loves You" and "Church Time" to use Cthulhu cards.

Thoughts or suggestions?

I'm confused: if you are already adding some Goal cards from a different set, why not simply add the corresponding Keeper cards from the different set as well?

I think the problem is that that the Keepers in question aren't in Christian Fluxx -- they're in the original Fluxx (which Christian Fluxx is an expansion for). But the OP doesn't have original Fluxx, just Cthulhu Fluxx -- which doesn't have those Keepers, because it's a different game based on Fluxx.

If you insist on combining Christianity with Cthulhu, you could always get Fluxx and just add the cards you want (the above Keepers and any others that appeal -- some that get rid of Creepers might be an idea). Or you could get Fluxx Blanxx and use some of them as the missing Keepers.

Since I don't have Christian Fluxx I'm not sure how you would best modify its cards to work with Cthulhu Fluxx, but you could try your ideas and see how they work.

Quote:
Or you could choose to just accept that those goals are unachievable - this might make thematic sense in the hopeless nihilistic Lovecraftian setting.

I don't think that would make for a very fun game! Well, maybe once.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Damerell
msg tools
mindspike wrote:
Goal - Jesus Loves You: the "Love" Keeper is required, but is not in Cthulhu Fluxx


Suggest you have Love if you have the Poet and another player has the Socialite, or vice versa, neither card having an attached Creeper. (You can't have _both_; then Asenath Waite and Edward Derby are married, and things have taken a turn for the worse.) "The Thing on the Doorstep" is one of the few Mythos stories with a love affair.

Quote:
Goal - Church Time: the "Time" Keeper is required, but is not in Cthulhu Fluxx


Tricky. The Great Race of Yith aren't in the game. Yog-Sothoth is meant to be "outside time", so perhaps it would do?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carthoris Pyramidos
United States
Centennial
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Why would the cross and Bible carry anti-doom? "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: ... Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Don't substitute an alternative of two keepers for a goal that specifies one. That makes it easier. And it shouldn't be easy to win with Jesus in Cthulhu Fluxx!

Frankly, I favor Russ's solution. devil
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Damerell
msg tools
Carthoris wrote:
Don't substitute an alternative of two keepers for a goal that specifies one. That makes it easier.


That's why I tried to weaken it as much as possible - you can't have them _both_ (and you want them both for some other goals) and the other player's member of the duo must be also uncorrupted. If that's unsatisfactory, make it "have the Poet with the Socialite also in play", and infer that Waite was always corrupted.

Quote:
And it shouldn't be easy to win with Jesus in Cthulhu Fluxx!


I think I am trying to avoid commenting on the theological implications.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carthoris Pyramidos
United States
Centennial
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
damerell wrote:
Carthoris wrote:
And it shouldn't be easy to win with Jesus in Cthulhu Fluxx!


I think I am trying to avoid commenting on the theological implications.

Well, as far as my quoted injunction goes, it has more to do with literary verisimilitude than theology. HPL was an atheist, and none of his characters exhibited (let alone benefited from) any measure of Christian piety.

The theological bit would have been at the beginning of my prior post, where I observed that Christian apocalypticism is itself "pro-doom" rather than anti-doom.

Edited to add: My remarks about the alternate-keeper goals were directed to the OP, not the "Thing on the Doorstep" Love-substitution. (Although I will note that the latter is not without its theological implications: Jesus loves you like Asenath loves Edward???)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Damerell
msg tools
Carthoris wrote:
Edited to add: My remarks about the alternate-keeper goals were directed to the OP, not the "Thing on the Doorstep" Love-substitution. (Although I will note that the latter is not without its theological implications: Jesus loves you like Asenath loves Edward???)


Ah, I see. Fair enough. Sure, it has theological implications; I'm just not going to think about them. :-)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryan Stout
United States
Annandale
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When this was first posted, before any responses appeared, I was going to reply that any home-rule solution sounded fine to me. But when I hit Preview it told me that the thread did not exist, and I thought the OP decided to delete it. Yet here it still is. Something arcane was going on. Perhaps the stars were not right.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Winston Crutchfield
United States
Indiana
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Lots of good thoughts here. Thanks, guys!

Mechanically: my thoughts on changing one non-existent Keeper for two alternate Keepers is to bring the new Goal into mathematical parity with the existing Goals. Responses from more experienced Fluxx players seem to indicate this is not necessary, or would not work in the way I had envisioned. Okay.

Thematically: I wanted the Cross and the Bible to carry Anti-Doom and have anti-Creeper abilities. I felt it was in keeping with their redemptive symbolism; a spark of hope in a hopeless world as it were. I had not considered apocalyptic associations. I can see how that argument would work - The Book of Revelation has some vivid imagery in it.

Motivation: Nothing sinister. Cthulhu Fluxx was a gift, and I found we enjoyed the game. A new FLGS opened up in town, and Christian Fluxx was one of several items I bought at the opening as a show of support. I thought Fluxx was mixable in the same way as Munchkin. (Oops.)

Theology and Literature: Loads to be said here, but I confess that I hadn't given it any previous consideration. The Mythos as conceived hold no place for Christian hope. Christian Orthodoxy holds all of creation as subject to an omnipotent Creator with a divine purpose. I don't know if it is wise or profitable to try and combine the two. It is certainly outside the scope of a card game like this! But since I play mostly with my kids, and they are too bright for my own good, I should have an answer ready if I'm going to use this symbolism in this way. I think perhaps my best answer would be to assure them that the Mythos is fiction, the Bible is a source of comfort against fear, and even Great Cthulhu is subject to the Cross.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.