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Subject: Realistic Fleets vs Possible Fleets? rss

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J B
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A friend of mine got me into this game, and now he and I are building the collection mutually.

I've been playing a lot lately and was wondering what you all would say the highest reasonable number of each ship would be to own and actually make legitimate use of. There are certain builds that are possible but seem unlikely to be effective, like five Y-wings with no gear added to them.

Below I've listed all the ships with the maximum number possible to run in a 100 point fleet. I'd appreciate any input on which, if any, of these seem truly playable...plus input on what more reasonable numbers would be. Thanks!

8 TIE Fighter (I have four)
4 TIE Advanced (I have one)
5 TIE Interceptor (I have one)
6 TIE Bomber
3 Slave I (I have one)
4 Shuttle

4 X-Wing (I have three)
5 Y-Wing (I have two)
5 A-Wing
4 B-Wing
3 Falcon
6 Moldy Crow (I have one)
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Derry Salewski
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Tons of posts about it already with lots of discussion.

 
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J B
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scifiantihero wrote:
Tons of posts about it already with lots of discussion.



I've been looking for a thread that contains info for ALL ships in one place, but info seems very scattered and specific to certain cases.
 
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DB Draft
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If the sole criteria is running full generic squads then I would say from most effective to least effective:

8 TIEs
4 X wings
5 Interceptors
4 B wings
3 Slave 1s
5 Y wings (4 with ion cannons is acceptable and often necessary!)
3 ORS (Outer Rim Smugglers)
6 TIE Bombers
5 A wings
4 TIE Adv

The more you have the better is the general rule, then having good firepower, durability and maneuverability. X wings and TIE Interceptors are pretty close. Never tried B wings but they look pretty solid with good firepower. I like Y wings but the cannon option is not really an option but should be mandatory. A wings without missiles are only really abit better than TIE fighters so only getting 5 in 100 points is less optimal.

EDIT: Forgot Shuttles and Hwks but haven't tried these but suggest they might take the last 2 spots.
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David Montgomery
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For realistic squads I'd say this is close to what you'd want

8 Ties (Swarm is realistic to fly, though hard to do right)
4 X-Wings
4-5 Interceptors (keeping in mind that the imperial aces pack will give you 2 when it comes out)
2-3 B-Wings depending on what your play style is.
2 Slave 1s should be sufficient.
2-3 Y-Wings. I'm not sure I'd ever need a 4th, they're hard to handle. 2 is good for large ship battles, 3 gives you a full squad to fly if you want.
2 Falcons
3-4 Tie Bombers. That may be too many, but would be fun to fly.
2-3 A-Wings.
2 Tie Advance
1-2 Shuttles I don't see the huge need for multiple support ships, but I could see wanting 2 from time to time.
1-2 Hwks See shuttle comment.
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Chris K.
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jcb231 wrote:
A friend of mine got me into this game, and now he and I are building the collection mutually.

I've been playing a lot lately and was wondering what you all would say the highest reasonable number of each ship would be to own and actually make legitimate use of. There are certain builds that are possible but seem unlikely to be effective, like five Y-wings with no gear added to them.

Below I've listed all the ships with the maximum number possible to run in a 100 point fleet. I'd appreciate any input on which, if any, of these seem truly playable...plus input on what more reasonable numbers would be. Thanks!

8 TIE Fighter (I have four)
4 TIE Advanced (I have one)
5 TIE Interceptor (I have one)
6 TIE Bomber
3 Slave I (I have one)
4 Shuttle

4 X-Wing (I have three)
5 Y-Wing (I have two)
5 A-Wing
4 B-Wing
3 Falcon
6 Moldy Crow (I have one)



8 TIE Fighter (I have four)
I'd take this down to 7. 8 is possible and feasible but you will hardly ever fly it.

4 TIE Advanced (I have one)
I personally have two and only ever use two to placate my buyers remorse. One is definitely enough.

5 TIE Interceptor (I have one)
5 is a waste. 4 is plenty enough and already weak against fleets with 360 Firing Arcs. A Pilot Skill 1 Interceptor wastes his biggest advantages since he does not see where his opponents are yet. Considering that the Aces Expansion is coming I'd probably only get 2, if I had to do it all again (got 5 myself)

6 TIE Bomber
I don't believe these will work without an escort so I'd say 2 is plenty enough and even a third will take up a whole chunk of points.
Also for 6 you'd field them naked without ammunition which kind of defeats the purpose.

3 Slave I (I have one)
I have 2 and am happy with them. There are a lot of interesting builds with it and the only 3-build seems kinda weak to me.

4 Shuttle
No idea yet, But I already fear buyers remorse setting in for getting a second one, so one is probably enough.

4 X-Wing (I have three)
Absolutely. Lots and Lots of interesting and strong 4 X-Wing builds.

5 Y-Wing (I have two)
Two is definitely enough in my opinion. If you are absolutely in love with ion cannons you could go up to four. 5 is a waste since a Y-Wing without a cannon does not really pull its weight.

5 A-Wing
I love my 4 A-Wing Lists, I can't see myself ever fielding a five. But the 4 A-Wing Lists is a hit or miss gimmicky list, so 2 are probably sufficient for nearly anything you'll ever do

4 B-Wing
Not sure about this one, but since it's another one that shines with its upgrades I'd go with 2-3.

3 Falcon
I don't see myself ever fielding a third. Fielding 2 makes for a lot of strong (if boring) lists, so I'd definitely recommend 2.

6 Moldy Crow (I have one)
Another one that I am absolutely not sure about, but I'd be surprised if I will ever need more than 2 in Lists since it is very much just a support ship.
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Joseph Woodworth
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It's really a personal question. Start list building and you'll find out where your limits. For example I like 4 ship rebel builds, but I also like to use upgrades and named pilots. This means that although I can run 6 hawks or 5 y/a wings, I am unlikely to do so because there aren't enough customization points left...

I am not a fan of All low pilot skill and no upgrade lists.. (multi ship lists excepted xbyaa + ion for example. I've found 4 is a good number for me for almost all the ships. If I want high pilot skill, OR unique pilots OR upgrades. 7 ties the exception, though I have 8 for symmetry.

It's also the reason I don't have 3 bounty hunters or yt's or even shuttles... They become point monsters when you upgrade them. I can't see running 3 naked bounty hunters over two upgraded ones and a tie or two..

Take a look at what happens when you start using unique pilots AND upgrades... You pretty much immediately find yourself with 3 ship rebel builds! Tie builds start to come in around 4-6 when you mix ship types..

So look at each ship and say could I run a naked tie bomber? If no, what's the max number you would run with a missile each? 5 ? A missile and bombs = 4.... Multiple missiles and a unique pilot? 2-3. You'll have to figure this out for each class of ship....

What is realistic has a lot to do with your expectations, and your skill at the game. If you have success with naked y-wings, you may find 5 with r2 units and 1 ion t be worth it....
 
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Brian Huhtala
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chrisdk wrote:

6 TIE Bomber
I don't believe these will work without an escort...


Don't be so sure. The bomber got the best maneuver dial of the wave 3 ships and has a hearty 6 hull. At our last league night we were fielding 75-point squads. One guy brought a squad of three bombers: Jonus with Squad Leader, and two Scimitars with two missiles each... and melted faces with it.
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Benjamin Cocquyt
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Given the precedent set by the Imperial Aces pack, I can't recommend new players buy in to the 100 point squad limit for each ship.

2 Core sets and 2 of each expansion (1 TIE/X-Wing) leave room for repaints and other odd expansions. Especially if you're both buying in, you can borrow the extra ships you need for that 6 HWK-290 squad you want to run.
 
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Jeff Dunford
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The only ships I'd consider flying the maximum number of are:
8 TIE Fighters (although I prefer 7 based around Howlrunner)
4 X-wings (can include Biggs/Wedge)
5 Interceptors (Phennir with 4 Alphas is fun, but 4 is probably enough, either all with Push the Limit or flown with Howlrunner)
3 Firesprays (a formidable squad)
6 Bombers (I wouldn't try it, but they are as resilient as about 10 TIE Fighters; 4 Bombers using Jonus with 3 missile-loaded Scimitars is probably enough for most people)
2 YT-1300s (the ORS is more like an oversized Y-wing and doesn't count; only the named pilots are worth flying)
4 B-wings (although 3 with HLC's are where it's at)

I personally feel that all the support ships are one-ofs: Y-wing, HWK-290, Lambda Shuttle. That leaves the A-wing and TIE Advanced, which I'd love to say were awesome, but they're not. They're basically one-ofs for their best respective pilots and that's it.
 
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Chris K.
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Brian1981 wrote:
chrisdk wrote:

6 TIE Bomber
I don't believe these will work without an escort...


Don't be so sure. The bomber got the best maneuver dial of the wave 3 ships and has a hearty 6 hull. At our last league night we were fielding 75-point squads. One guy brought a squad of three bombers: Jonus with Squad Leader, and two Scimitars with two missiles each... and melted faces with it.


Still a far cry from fielding six bombers though ;-)

Personally I am getting 2 and then seeing if I come up with a need for more.
 
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Jaravak wrote:
Given the precedent set by the Imperial Aces pack, I can't recommend new players buy in to the 100 point squad limit for each ship.

2 Core sets and 2 of each expansion (1 TIE/X-Wing) leave room for repaints and other odd expansions. Especially if you're both buying in, you can borrow the extra ships you need for that 6 HWK-290 squad you want to run.


We're both buying in...but as one shared pool of ships. My investing partner in this enterprise does not have a BGG account, so I'm posting for the both of us.
 
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Thanks to everyone that posted. I feel like this thread is offering some really good advice, and it is nice to see how many people's answers line up to be basically the same. Always a good sign to see some consensus!

The new Imperial Aces pack raises some questions....I have one Interceptor, and plan to buy no more until that pack comes out. Then I'll buy one of those and see where I am. Depending on the generic cards that come with that set I'm thinking two Aces packs and my one stand-alone Interceptor would do it. Or maybe just one Aces pack and two stand-alone Interceptors? I know we don't have all the facts yet, but what are folks thinking when it comes to buying that set versus regular Interceptors?
 
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John Woodworth
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jcb231 wrote:
what are folks thinking when it comes to buying that set versus regular Interceptors?


I'd say most of us are thinking "Crap I already own 4+ Interceptors... and don't need any more."

But if I had none yet, I'd buy 2 normal TI's and 1 Ace pack, for 4 total.
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VanorDM wrote:
jcb231 wrote:
what are folks thinking when it comes to buying that set versus regular Interceptors?


I'd say most of us are thinking "Crap I already own 4+ Interceptors... and don't need any more."

But if I had none yet, I'd buy 2 normal TI's and 1 Ace pack, for 4 total.


Interceptors are my favourite ships. Right now I'm leaning towards keeping 4 of the wave 2 version unaltered and getting 2 of the Aces packs. That will give me a total of 8; more than I can field in a 100-point battle, but I'll have 2 Royal Guards (look awesome next to the shuttle), 2 with 181st stripes, and 4 generics. I can always easily paint more stripes to match. And maybe I'll want 8 of them when epic/cinematic mode comes out.

Ideally, I'd like to have:

4x X-wings
2x Y-wings
2x A-wings
4x B-wings
1x Millennium Falcon
1x Moldy Crow
(13 small ships; 1 big ship)

8x TIE Fighters
8x TIE Interceptors (as above)
4x TIE Bombers
1x TIE Advanced (there can be only one Vader)
2x Firesprays (Slave I and my stealth Bounty Hunter)
1x Lambda Shuttle
(21 small ships; 3 big ships)
 
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I would expect tournaments to be 150 points in the future. There is an Escalation Tournament format was the World Championships in Nov.

http://www.afewmaneuvers.com/articles.html/_/afm-articles/es...

In the Seattle/Portland/Vancouver area, we are doing 150 point tournaments already. Escalation tournaments will also be in the mix as well before the World Championships in Nov.
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David Hladky
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Just one TIE advance in a fleet? No way! If one wants to create a custom realistic scenario, one small ship of a type in one fleet does not make any sense. Especially if we speak about the Empire, that relies on numbers and mass production.
 
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mrakomor wrote:
Just one TIE advance in a fleet? No way! If one wants to create a custom realistic scenario, one small ship of a type in one fleet does not make any sense. Especially if we speak about the Empire, that relies on numbers and mass production.


Vader's personal TIE Advanced x1 prototype? I think they only made one...

(at least, when Vader was flying it, there was only one; maybe they made more later)
 
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In the films just Vader flew the thing, I suppose you are right here. But the game offers other pilots so it means other TIE advances existed.

I liked flying those in TIE Fighter (ancient computer game) and I am sad they are so expensive in X-wing so they are not worth using (except with Vader as a pilot).

I really hope to get those, because the whole Europe is free of TIE advances (except for a couple of them costing more, then Millenium Falcon).
 
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Steven Hughes
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In the expanded lore, Vader was making a big push to get the TIE Advanced into mass production and replace all of the basic TIE Fighters with it. In order to placate him, the imperial officers only ordered a handful of squadrons. The bureaucrats didn't think they were as cost effective as the standard TIE Fighter, and the officers (besides being capitol ship crazy) thought that a small one man fighter with a hyperdrive would only encourage defection; which makes sense, the empire had no need to send small groups of fighters into deep space combat without capitol ship support. Once the TIE/IN was put into production the Advanced program was dead, just a Sith lords hobby and waste of credits.
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Davyd A
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mrakomor wrote:
Just one TIE advance in a fleet? No way! If one wants to create a custom realistic scenario, one small ship of a type in one fleet does not make any sense. Especially if we speak about the Empire, that relies on numbers and mass production.


Well, two thoughts come to mind:

First, the OP was asking for "realistic" in the sense of what seemed reasonable to field for the game, not in a real-life sense - and the truth is, X-Wing's standard format doesn't really model the role the TIE Advanced would fill. In straight-up dogfighting the Interceptor both better and cheaper. Standard TIEs aren't as good as Advanceds, but they're so much cheaper they're usually a better choice anyway. And Bombers are better missile platforms, again for less. S

The Advanced's role in a real fleet would be long-endurance patrol or deep strike, where the fact that it has a hyperdrive, shield, and more life-support would matter, simply because no other TIE would actually be able to do the job. However, the game doesn't model that, so other than in custom scenarios, there's no real niche for the Advanced, other than to field Vader.

Second: any force that the Empire can put on the board is going to be a lot less than the "book" strength of a unit. It's not unreasonable that the 8-ship TIE swarm is modeling all of a squadron's combat-capable craft, I suppose, but anything less is clearly just a part of the force. So it's surely possible to imagine that, somewhere off map, is the rest of the Advanced's squadron, right?
 
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Joseph Woodworth
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I think concerning the advanced, the Tie bomber in Jonus - gives us lists where 2(certainly 2)(and possibly even 3) have a competitive place.

the advanced has always been, and is a missile carrier that can dogfight - wave 3 has helped solidify the value of ordinance.

 
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Davyd A
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ravncat wrote:
I think concerning the advanced, the Tie bomber in Jonus - gives us lists where 2(certainly 2)(and possibly even 3) have a competitive place.

the advanced has always been, and is a missile carrier that can dogfight - wave 3 has helped solidify the value of ordinance.



But is one more agility die and a hard 2 that isn't red really worth 5 points? I'm undecided myself. I've been flying a 4 bomber list lately, and for the same points as a Tempest + Concussion, I can fly a Scimitar + Cluster + Assault - and usually I manage to shoot off all my ordnance. (Ordinance, by-and-by, is a different word - it means law or regulation.) I have had one critical actually hurt me, so the shields aren't really a big bonus... but this last game, having 3 dodge dice and a hard 2 might have made the difference. So I'm unsure at the moment.
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Joseph Woodworth
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And shields and evade...

I'm posting from a phone with autocorrect, don't judge me!
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Kevin Keefe
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Jaravak wrote:
Given the precedent set by the Imperial Aces pack


I do wonder how many of these they're going to do and make those of us who have already bought tons of the base or first expansion to suffer buyer remorse. I'm sure those with 4-5 TIE Int are wishing they'd not bought as many now. Soon they'll have 6-7.
 
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