Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

Android: Netrunner» Forums » Strategy

Subject: A reasonable use for False Echo rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Tim Meng
msg tools
I just picked up Opening Moves from my LGS and was perusing the cards when I came across False Echo. I remembered that it was not very highly received when it was spoiled, so me being me (I like making oddball cards/strategies work), I tried to think of ways to make use of it, and I think I might have something at least somewhat interesting for the early game.

This idea was inspired by some of my local players who are constantly using Inside Job on single-unrezzed-ice centrals, which I have always felt to be a waste for a couple reasons:

1. The Corp's decision is easy: don't rez. Why give away the surprise and pay money? As the Runner, this kinda sucks because you'd like them to rez it and waste the money, but no Corp player in their right mind will do so (even though they could...)

2. With the exception of Archives where a lot of face-down cards have been dumped, or with a couple interfaces/mediums/nerve agents, you only get to see one card, and it's random. Using up one of only three copies of Inside Job just for a single random access seems rather wasted. I'd rather use them on remotes where the goodies tend to end up, and where you get exactly what you pay for.



ANYWAY, on to the actual strategy part. As if it wasn't obvious by now, my thought was to use False Echo with Inside Job for the first reason stated above.

If your first action is an Inside Job on R&D or HQ where there is a single piece of unrezzed ice, normally the Corp would just hold out their hand, or pop the top card of R&D, completely ignoring the fact that the ice even exists. However, if you have False Echo in play, now the decision becomes a hard one. If you don't rez it, you'll have to risk pulling it back into hand, meaning the Runner has one full turn of free access to the server of choice.

If that server is R&D, the Corp is risking the possibility that there aren't a bunch of agendas/trashable cards sitting on top. If the Runner decides to throw down an Imp before all of this, the deal gets even worse.

If the server is HQ, the only consolation for the Corp player is that the ice is now in their hand, diluting the possible selection, and they also can see what's in there, so they know if there are any goodies that they don't want the Runner to have. The downside, however, is that the Runner could then follow up with an Account Siphon, or perhaps a Vamp. Not a fun situation to consider. Also, if Imp is in the equation, the Corp could potentially lose that piece of ice, which may not be preferable in the early game.

However, if the Corp instead decides to rez the ice in order to avoid it being thrown back, they've now paid money on an ice that still hasn't kept the Runner out, and now the Runner has knowledge that the Corp would probably have liked to have kept secret a little longer.

Of course, this strategy has its downsides, the biggest of which I would say is that it's really only good in the early game, when centrals usually tend to only have 1-2 ice on them. The fact that it's a minimum two-card combo means it would be difficult to get in the opening hand, even with, say, Andromeda. It might still have a bit of potency on a two-ice server, but it could get shut down in that situation as well.


Anyway, it was just a thought.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ludovic Gauthier
France
flag msg tools
This program should be played inside a criminal deck with inside job, snitch, fao, emergency shutdown, same old thing, etc.

But this deck wouldn't be as good as other criminal decks using influence on better cards since a card that needs other cards to be efficient slows you down and has the potential risk of being useless.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Krisso K
msg tools
IMO there is no use for this card now, and there is no point in forcing yourself to put it in deck. It clearly recuires some other card - like Atman needs datsuckers/wyrm to be effective.

If there would be some program/hardware which would allow you to trash ICE form HQ, or force Corp to immediatelly discard a random card from HQ if he has over a maximum number - yes it would work.

We must wait - so as we must wait for stealth decoder for lockpick...
(Can't wait for full Stealth-rig!)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Keddie
Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
I can also see an argument for False Echo with Pawn in the server - assuming the server has multiple ICE. I'm considering a spot for FE in my rez-denial Reina Roja deck, but there's a good chance it'll lose out on influence to cards like FAO or Crescentus.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Meng
msg tools
Krisso wrote:

If there would be some program/hardware which would allow you to trash ICE form HQ, or force Corp to immediatelly discard a random card from HQ if he has over a maximum number - yes it would work.


It's called Imp, and I do believe I mentioned it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Krisso K
msg tools
Quote:
It's called Imp, and I do believe I mentioned it.


I know but i was thinking of something which would be specialized ONLY in ICE trashing, and would be for shapers...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Death Dragon
Germany
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
What if you used False Echo together with Fisk?
Let's say the corp doesn't have that much money and 5 cards in his hand.
You run, force him to take an ice into his hand and then force him to take the card on R&D, meaning he has 8 cards in his hand at the start of his turn.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Kennedy
United States
Athens
Georgia
flag msg tools
Death Dragon wrote:
What if you used False Echo together with Fisk?
Let's say the corp doesn't have that much money and 5 cards in his hand.
You run, force him to take an ice into his hand and then force him to take the card on R&D, meaning he has 8 cards in his hand at the start of his turn.


That's an excellent idea... I really hope people vote for Fisk. I get more excited about potentially playing him by the day.

You can also use False Echo to run forts you can't break into completely just for the sake of making the corp rez the ice in front of the ice they've already rezzed.

Or to make the corp rez ice on remote servers that they haven't placed cards in yet.

If you combine this with Xanadu, you can really slow down the corp's early game.

I think False Echo can also find a place in Parasite based decks.

My opinion of this card has completely changed now. Thanks!

I just noticed that you have to trash False Echo when you use it. That lowers its value to me a bit but I still think I can get use out of it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas R
United States
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
Generally speaking, I don't think that False Echo gains you a tremendous amount. The Inside Job combo is certainly interesting, but I don't know if it's compelling. The only clear, killer use I've seen for it is if you manage to derez a highly advanced Hadrian's Wall, Tyrant, or Swarm while the corp can't afford to rez it again. Most other advancable ice has a low enough rez cost that I think it'd be hard to get that sweet spot of highly advanced, but too broke to rez again.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gregory Pettigrew
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
anathomical wrote:
Generally speaking, I don't think that False Echo gains you a tremendous amount. The Inside Job combo is certainly interesting, but I don't know if it's compelling. The only clear, killer use I've seen for it is if you manage to derez a highly advanced Hadrian's Wall, Tyrant, or Swarm while the corp can't afford to rez it again. Most other advancable ice has a low enough rez cost that I think it'd be hard to get that sweet spot of highly advanced, but too broke to rez again.


And at that point, ESD is better.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Keddie
Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
etherial wrote:
anathomical wrote:
Generally speaking, I don't think that False Echo gains you a tremendous amount. The Inside Job combo is certainly interesting, but I don't know if it's compelling. The only clear, killer use I've seen for it is if you manage to derez a highly advanced Hadrian's Wall, Tyrant, or Swarm while the corp can't afford to rez it again. Most other advancable ice has a low enough rez cost that I think it'd be hard to get that sweet spot of highly advanced, but too broke to rez again.


And at that point, ESD is better.


Think you mean FAO - if you've already forced a derez, ESD doesn't do uch for you
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gregory Pettigrew
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
CommissarFeesh wrote:
etherial wrote:
anathomical wrote:
Generally speaking, I don't think that False Echo gains you a tremendous amount. The Inside Job combo is certainly interesting, but I don't know if it's compelling. The only clear, killer use I've seen for it is if you manage to derez a highly advanced Hadrian's Wall, Tyrant, or Swarm while the corp can't afford to rez it again. Most other advancable ice has a low enough rez cost that I think it'd be hard to get that sweet spot of highly advanced, but too broke to rez again.


And at that point, ESD is better.


Think you mean FAO - if you've already forced a derez, ESD doesn't do uch for you


Yeah, that thing. XD
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex Rockwell
United States
Lynnwood
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Get hit by Neural EMP.
Discard the False Echo in your hand. As a result, don't die.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maybe Next Time
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Running vs Jinteki. They rez Chum, you break it, they don't rez the ice after it. YOU USE FALSE ECHO. They are forced to rez the Data Mine or return it the their hand. If they rez it, you only need to run one more time breaking Chum then taking 1 net dmg (if you're not running AI breakers). WIN!

Running HQ to force a rez to get info for an Escher/Account Siphon run later. No dice - corp doesn't rez. YOU USE FALSE ECHO. They either have to rez the Chimera - WASTING 2c, or put it back in their hand only to install it again later - but now you have your window to Siphon. WIN!

Or any other piece of ice that the corp doesn't care about.

Definitely worth, I'd say 2 of in every Shaper deck.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt
Australia
Newcastle
NSW
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
2097 wrote:
In your HQ scenario, Tomatello—they see the False Echo. It’s not a surprise card. So it’s a way for you to force extra Chimera rezzes. Maybe good, but… seems way narrow.


Agreed on the narrow part, but you might be able to pull a surprise out using a tutor card (SMC, Clone Chip)...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alejandro G.
United States
Hurst
Texas
flag msg tools
Sometimes you have to roll the hard six.
badge
I'm getting my men...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lockpick looks fairly awful. I'll give it a try though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.