Dave G
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
El Chupacabratwurst
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Wow. That's just…I don't even have words.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Born To Lose, Live To Win
United States
South Euclid
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
"Captain, although your abilities intrigue me, you are quite honestly inferior"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And I thought the way the ATF was dramatized on the Sons Of Anarchy was over the top. It looks like the producers were being generous.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich Shipley
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
flag msg tools
badge
the liberal unsavory type
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't see the need for the ATF as a law enforcement agency. Seems like the FBI could handle anything necessary in this area.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
United States
Vancouver
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Ami. Geek.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've never been a big fan of breaking the law to entrap people when they, in turn, break the law (that you enticed them to break).

It seems like they could fund a bunch of undercover agents and narcs and have about the same amount of success, but without all of the abuse and collateral damage.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave G
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
El Chupacabratwurst
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
bjlillo wrote:
Good grief. The guy they hired in Milwaukee was charged with drug and gun running.

Quote:
For more than six months, federal agents relied on Chauncey Wright to promote "Fearless Distributing" by handing out fliers as he rode his bike around town recommending the store to friends, family and strangers, according to federal prosecutors and family members.

Wright, unaware that the store was an undercover operation being run by agents with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, also stocked shelves with shoes, clothing, drug paraphernalia and auto parts, according to his family.

Once authorities shut down the operation, they charged the 28-year-old man with federal gun and drug counts.

"I have never heard of anything so ludicrous in my life," said Greg Thiele, who spent 30 years working for the Milwaukee Police Department including on undercover stings with federal agents, including those with the ATF. "Something is very wrong here."

Wright's IQ measures in the 50s, about half of a normal IQ, according to those familiar with him. Wright's score is classified as mildly or moderately disabled, depending on the IQ scale used.


He had an IQ in the 50s. These bastards used him for months to do their dirty work and then tried to have him put in jail. Unbelievable.


That is truly fucking disgusting.
12 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Eig
United States
Huntington
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
The ATF is a classic example of an organization that exists through sheer inertia. Why do we even need them anymore? Fold them into a bigger group that can enforce the same laws, and prioritize with a semblance of sense.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Doherty
United States
McKinney
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ejmowrer wrote:
I've never been a big fan of breaking the law to entrap people when they, in turn, break the law (that you enticed them to break).


Yes, I thought we had laws against police using entrapment? When did that disappear?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave G
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
El Chupacabratwurst
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
pdoherty wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
I've never been a big fan of breaking the law to entrap people when they, in turn, break the law (that you enticed them to break).


Yes, I thought we had laws against police using entrapment? When did that disappear?


We do. Very strict rules, with enormous, gaping loopholes. The entrapment laws basically allow the legal equivalent of your little brother sitting in the back seat with his finger a quarter inch from your nose saying "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!"
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt
United States
Minneapolis
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Man! Someone needs to call the ATF on those guys!!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kelsey Rinella
United States
Rochester
New York
flag msg tools
I am proud to have opposed those who describe all who oppose them as "Tender Flowers" and "Special Snowflakes".
badge
Check out Stately Play for news and reviews of games worth thinking about.
Avatar
mbmb
Reminds me of Ray Nicolette from Out of Sight.

"You ever wear one that says 'undercover'?"
Ray (wearing ATF shirt, looking puzzled), "...No."

Now HE was a good Batman.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
フィル
Australia
Ashfield
NSW
flag msg tools
designer
badge
I am the wasp / that burrows in! I am the shriek / of twilight din!
Avatar
mbmbmb
Yay, RSP finds consensus!

(Slater?)
3 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Welcome Rolling Stones
Latvia
Bullshit
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

This is terrible!

Our congress should spend some effort to fix this mess. It's too bad they don't have time for it, due to all the other important things they are getting accomplished.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad
United States
Denver
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
We will bury you
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
49xjohn wrote:

This is terrible!

Our congress should spend some effort to fix this mess. It's too bad they don't have time for it, due to all the other important things they are getting accomplished.


Except for the fact that this is part of the Executive Branch.......
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sbszine wrote:
Yay, RSP finds consensus!

(Slater?)
Yep seems pretty incompetent, and I would have hoped (it appears not) illegal.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Utrecht wrote:
49xjohn wrote:

This is terrible!

Our congress should spend some effort to fix this mess. It's too bad they don't have time for it, due to all the other important things they are getting accomplished.


Except for the fact that this is part of the Executive Branch.......
Tightening the laws on entrapment would not be, it's a passing a law thing. This is a falling of all branches of government (and of all parties).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I wonder when the movie comes out.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Born To Lose, Live To Win
United States
South Euclid
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
"Captain, although your abilities intrigue me, you are quite honestly inferior"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Utrecht wrote:

Except for the fact that this is part of the Executive Branch.......


And this why I think the ATF is a far greater concern than the TSA. The ATF IS a paramilitary arm of the government that can hide in legal loopholes to be unaccountable for anything but the most blatant abuses. If I was the type to see Third Reich parallels in every shadow of our government, these people would be high on my list of "most likely to look like the SS one day". Though, from reports like the OP, it seems they aren't competent enough to attain that dubious comparison. They definitely need to be broken up and absorbed by the FBI and DEA (The DEA should be next on the chopping block BTW).
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Born To Lose, Live To Win
United States
South Euclid
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
"Captain, although your abilities intrigue me, you are quite honestly inferior"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Also, speaking of paramilitary capabilities, why does every single agency need them? Regardless of their obvious susceptibility for abuse, it's a lot of redundant cost. In a perfect world, I'd streamline Federal law enforcement as follows: First, make criminal investigations the purview of the FBI, different departments for different crimes. When it's time to get physical, the actual boots on the ground would be U.S. Marshals. Give the Marshals whatever tools and training would be necessary and it would be easier to keep them on a tight leash than 5 or 6 different agencies with varying rules of engagement.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheChin! wrote:
Also, speaking of paramilitary capabilities, why does every single agency need them? Regardless of their obvious susceptibility for abuse, it's a lot of redundant cost. In a perfect world, I'd streamline Federal law enforcement as follows: First, make criminal investigations the purview of the FBI, different departments for different crimes. When it's time to get physical, the actual boots on the ground would be U.S. Marshals. Give the Marshals whatever tools and training would be necessary and it would be easier to keep them on a tight leash than 5 or 6 different agencies with varying rules of engagement.
I am amazed at just how many separate law enforcement agencies the USA has. Party this (I suspect) is the result of having local, state, and federal authorities having separate law enforcement responsibility.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave G
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
El Chupacabratwurst
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheChin! wrote:
Also, speaking of paramilitary capabilities, why does every single agency need them? Regardless of their obvious susceptibility for abuse, it's a lot of redundant cost. In a perfect world, I'd streamline Federal law enforcement as follows: First, make criminal investigations the purview of the FBI, different departments for different crimes. When it's time to get physical, the actual boots on the ground would be U.S. Marshals. Give the Marshals whatever tools and training would be necessary and it would be easier to keep them on a tight leash than 5 or 6 different agencies with varying rules of engagement.


I like this idea. I don't understand why we need several different levels of law enforcement with overlapping responsibilities. How long is it before we're reading about a bloody shootout that turns out to be between undercover DEA agents and an ATF raid?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
djgutierrez77 wrote:
I like this idea. I don't understand why we need several different levels of law enforcement with overlapping responsibilities.


Keeps red tape manufacturers in business.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kelsey Rinella
United States
Rochester
New York
flag msg tools
I am proud to have opposed those who describe all who oppose them as "Tender Flowers" and "Special Snowflakes".
badge
Check out Stately Play for news and reviews of games worth thinking about.
Avatar
mbmb
Does anybody here work in federal law enforcement? I'm seeing a lot of "From the outside, this looks asinine." As a fellow outsider, it looks pretty asinine to me, too, but I wonder whether there's some reason it might make sense.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave G
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
El Chupacabratwurst
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What possible reasoning could make "exploiting a retarded man and then throwing him in prison" make sense to you, Kelsey? I'm all for taking things with a grain of salt, especially from BJ, but:

-The Journal Sentinel is a very well-respected and mostly unslanted newspaper. It's not like this is a story from Glenn Beck where you can assume two-thirds of the relevant details are missing.
-There's plenty here that seems unjustifiably inappropriate. That is, even if they had a "good" reason for running the operations, a lot of this looks like sloppy performance.
-I can't imagine what federal law enforcement has ever done to make you think they deserve the benefit of the doubt?
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Born To Lose, Live To Win
United States
South Euclid
Ohio
flag msg tools
badge
"Captain, although your abilities intrigue me, you are quite honestly inferior"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
djgutierrez77 wrote:
What possible reasoning could make "exploiting a retarded man and then throwing him in prison" make sense to you, Kelsey? I'm all for taking things with a grain of salt, especially from BJ, but:

-The Journal Sentinel is a very well-respected and mostly unslanted newspaper. It's not like this is a story from Glenn Beck where you can assume two-thirds of the relevant details are missing.
-There's plenty here that seems unjustifiably inappropriate. That is, even if they had a "good" reason for running the operations, a lot of this looks like sloppy performance.
-I can't imagine what federal law enforcement has ever done to make you think they deserve the benefit of the doubt?


Also, with human nature in mind, we'd have to carefully parse any comments from someone on the inside. I'm sure anyone with any amount of job experience has seen competing departments fight to keep whatever positions, budget and/or resources they have and use whatever justification necessary to do so. Even when it is redundant and wasteful to the agency as a whole. Especially where jobs are concerned. Nothing sends lock-down mode throughout a department like the thought of "merging".
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kelsey Rinella
United States
Rochester
New York
flag msg tools
I am proud to have opposed those who describe all who oppose them as "Tender Flowers" and "Special Snowflakes".
badge
Check out Stately Play for news and reviews of games worth thinking about.
Avatar
mbmb
djgutierrez77 wrote:
What possible reasoning could make "exploiting a retarded man and then throwing him in prison" make sense to you, Kelsey? I'm all for taking things with a grain of salt, especially from BJ, but:

-The Journal Sentinel is a very well-respected and mostly unslanted newspaper. It's not like this is a story from Glenn Beck where you can assume two-thirds of the relevant details are missing.
-There's plenty here that seems unjustifiably inappropriate. That is, even if they had a "good" reason for running the operations, a lot of this looks like sloppy performance.
-I can't imagine what federal law enforcement has ever done to make you think they deserve the benefit of the doubt?


Oh, I'm totally on board with the badness and mismanagement of these particulars, and likely the organization generally. What I don't know is whether merging our law enforcement would have consequences I wouldn't like. Among other things, I'm not especially confident that there's a well-run organization in there to bundle them all under, nor that the addition of an organization's worth of responsibilities wouldn't cause more mismanagement. It seems hard to imagine it could get a lot worse, but I'm not confident about that.

POGO generally seems pretty evenhanded to me (which may well mean they're liberal, my own biases being what they are), and reported this news pretty similarly.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.