John Van Wagoner
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ok...assume the game is mine, and I have the urge to start a 1-player game and proceed alone...

but maybe every other week I also get together with 3 other friends, who would like to get this in to our rotation (but not be playing every day/week/etc.):

- let's assume I've already created/used a character on my own and have played 6-7 times already

- I assume I can just start everyone (incl. me) "fresh" and begin a 4-player game anytime (just ignoring my orig charcter)

- how will I track the characters? will this create a problem with adding new decks? (I believe that after a certain point, I could add cards to the base cards as I progress through the game...but that would always be when I play solo...so do I then have to track and then remove all those added cards when I go back to a 4 player game?)

- and what if after 2-3 sessions 1 of our 4 can't make it, but we play on with the 3 of us...and progress our 3 characters...is there any way for player 4 to catch up (player 4 would not be taking the game home and playing alone; won't ever happen...so does that mean the 4 of us can't really ever play unless all 4 are together?)...

- same idea: let's say my wife and I play 5-6 times, then introduce another couple to the game...I know we'd obv be starting over, but in doing so would we be messing up our decks/etc that we've created in our 2-player sessions?

thanks...because before proceeding I would really like to know if this will be a lot of back/forth with adding/removing cards and everything if I want to have the option of EASILY playing solo while also playing along at a slower pace, but with more players...
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Ian M
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I believe there are character sheets that you can grab off the interweb somewhere. Excuse me for not having the link. You can probably scan through the post topics and find them. Or maybe in the downloads section? Anyway... I believe they have a place to track your current inventory and feats and such.
 
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John Van Wagoner
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Deltron Zed wrote:
I believe there are character sheets that you can grab off the interweb somewhere. Excuse me for not having the link. You can probably scan through the post topics and find them. Or maybe in the downloads section? Anyway... I believe they have a place to track your current inventory and feats and such.
thanks...but how about adding cards/decks as you progress? I really don't want to have to go back and start making lists of cards (that can only be used when player(s) X, Y and maybe Z are playing)...I haven't played yet, but I've read several places where as you level up/etc. you have access to (and add) new cards, and even decks of cards...that's not a problem as long as every game is with all the same people; i'd hoped to be able to play this as I would all the other games I own: sometimes solo (if an option), other times 2-player with my wife, and other times anywhere from 4-6 players...all varying groups, not the same 4 even all the time...

i'm not sure this game is built for that, but that's why i'm asking before buying...
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Ian M
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Ah. Well I haven't played that far but it is true that you are shuffling cards in from different adventure packs as you go along AND I believe some adventures later in the Adventure Path require that you take out earlier packs. All the cards are marked so you can tell which adventure pack they come from and remove or add the necessary cards. Shuffling in and removing different sets of cards will be part of this regardless of whether you play with the same group or not. The char. sheets will let you track where your different groups and characters are in the Adventure Path but as to how you could make this more functionally "tidy", I'm not sure.
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Jeff Kayati
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The character sheets that Paizo provides as a free download allow you to track your character cards and progress easily. I'm using these to run two different groups currently. It takes a bit of work to deconstruct/reassemble character decks to make it work correctly, but it's not a big deal.

http://paizo.com/products/btpy914x

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Ian M
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Cool. I wasn't sure how to advise on the level of annoyance attributed to adding packs in and out based on multiple playing groups. I don't really have a problem with the idea of it but I haven't done it in practice. The cards are clearly marked by their adventure group i.e. B for base set C for Character add-on, etc. It didn't seem like it would be to irritating.
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John Van Wagoner
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but...it sounds like quite a bit of work to me...if I have a solo game running, a 2-player with my wife, and a 4-player with friends...that's a lot of deck/card "adjusting" and character tracking...

my problem is I won't play enough just using any 1 setup; i'll be back and forth between the 3 options (solo, 2player, 4player) all the time...

i'm starting to think probably isn't something I should proceed with...
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Chris Franka
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I think using the character sheets is probably the best way to go. If any of your characters are playing a game where a certain card is removed from the entire box, have everyone in that game cross a line through the name of that card if it's a unique. Then, if anyone with that card crossed out on their sheet draws that card for some reason, then just have them replace it with another card drawn from the same deck.

If it's something where you remove a non-unique (like Blessing of the Gods) from the box as part of gameplay, then just have people write "Blessing of the Gods -1" on their sheets. You would have to physically remove that card from the blessing deck before each play.

That's not a fault of the game. That doesn't make the game "fiddly." That's just an inescapable fact that the game is a physical item. If it was a computer game, then a game designer could program that in. But to restore a "save state" using a physical game with physical components is going to require physical manipulation of those components. There's no way around that. Mike can't magically make cards magically disappear or reappear for you.

In fact, I think the fact that the game even has the capacity to allow several groups to play different ongoing games at the same time is commendable. The salient point is that very few board games even have any kind of persistence at all that carries between plays. Computer games do. Role playing games do. And SOME board games do--Descent RTL and Risk Legacy are some of the few that come to mind. Descent RTL had you put your stuff in little character or OL "save boxes" which would obviously make anything in those boxes unavailable to a new party that wanted to start a campaign. Risk Legacy has you permanently alter the board, rule book, and game components, which makes it pretty much impossible to "reset" the game for a new group. You can keep decks together in Pathfinder or keep checklists when you throw it all back into the box to be accessible to a new group. But just keep in mind that the absence of a more elegant method to do this is not a knock against the game. It's just part and parcel of it being a physical item. You're going to have to do some manipulation and housekeeping somewhere if you want to run concurrent groups.
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John Van Wagoner
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chris...I def would agree; not saying game is "fiddly" in any way...it's just going to be quite a bit of work/time involved if I decide to play the game (the way i'll play it)...I can't justify it for just solo, or even just 2-player...I play games a lot, and the group size changes all the time...

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D P
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Most of the people I've seen talking here are using 6 or less decks. If you have the character add-on pack, this is quite feasible and able to be done, without having to switch in and out and around and around. Just treat them all as created decks, but keep character tracking as far as adventures go for individual. Nothing is stopping the people what want to play solo and with 2 people and with 4 people. You can use the same character across all three types, just keep track of which scenarios you win, and make sure you don't receive the reward for that scenario (or adventure or path) if you have already received it once.

That being said, I also see that many are wanting to completely separate the experiences from each other, which yes, does require deck reconstruction and management, and is also beyond the intent of the game standpoint, so I'm not sure why people are complaining about it.

It's primary intent is for up to 4 (or 6) ongoing characters to take part in scenarios on a per-play basis, and/or adventures on a per-play basis, and/or adventure paths on a per-play basis. The characters are 'saved' like in a computer game, and can be 'ported' over to other games (new scenarios or ongoing adventures or paths) at any time, and can also return to play on their own or with others.
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John Van Wagoner
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after a scenario (that you win), is the reward the addition of cards, or simply marking on the character sheet that you now have something else? (taking cards out when changing playing groups wouldn't be too bad, but the remembering everything that needs to be put back in...)

problem for me would probably be when i'm done for the session, I really have no idea which group I might be playing with next...maybe a 2nd game might be easier for me!! (smile)(only half kidding!!)
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D P
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John_VW wrote:
after a scenario (that you win), is the reward the addition of cards, or simply marking on the character sheet that you now have something else? (taking cards out when changing playing groups wouldn't be too bad, but the remembering everything that needs to be put back in...)

problem for me would probably be when i'm done for the session, I really have no idea which group I might be playing with next...maybe a 2nd game might be easier for me!! (smile)(only half kidding!!)
Scenario, adventure, and adventure path rewards vary. Sometimes they can be an additional card to add to your deck before rebuilding it. Sometimes they can be feats that allow you to hold more cards. Sometimes they can be feats that allow you to better your special abilities or your skills. So it all depends on that specific reward.

As far as keeping up with what cards are in a deck, the paizo character deck sheets are perfect for it (just wish they were editable without having to print them out).

The only time anyone will have an issue when wanting to rebuild using the same set but playing with lots of different people are when there aren't enough of the specific cards to go around for everyone that needs one in their deck. I actually covered that and a possible fix wayyyyyyy back when the game was still in the 'to be shipped' stage.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/13024322#13024322
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Jeff Kayati
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The cards will change every game session. If you look at the character sheets, you'll see how they track everything.

If the two groups are the same adventure path, we're talking ten minutes in between, or before, a session. If they aren't, the time for adjusting the decks might become too cumbersome for you.
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John Van Wagoner
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jkayati wrote:
The cards will change every game session. If you look at the character sheets, you'll see how they track everything.

If the two groups are the same adventure path, we're talking ten minutes in between, or before, a session. If they aren't, the time for adjusting the decks might become too cumbersome for you.
the groups def would not be on the same adventure path...

let me ask anyone who has the basic game and the avail base game character add-on expansion: if I got 2 base games (and just kept them sep), could I get by with only 1 base game character add-on? (or would I be going down the road where i'd need 2 of everything??)(smile)
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Matt Smith
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As long as you don't plan to play one base game with more than 4 characters, and you don't want the extra characters (Paladin, Druid, etc), then you don't need the character pack. However, it does have some cool extra boons and banes, so you'll get a more varied experience with the character pack.
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mvettemagred wrote:
As long as you don't plan to play one base game with more than 4 characters, and you don't want the extra characters (Paladin, Druid, etc), then you don't need the character pack. However, it does have some cool extra boons and banes, so you'll get a more varied experience with the character pack.
thanks for the feedback (everyone)...at this point I really have no idea what to do...my guess is this would be maybe 45% solo, 25% 2-player and maybe 30% 4-player, and any 2 of these seems to mean fiddling before each game (esp since the 4-player games won't even be the same 4 players all the time)...
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Byron Rocher
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I am constantly introducing other players to desirable games in a couple of gaming groups. I am experiencing no problem with a few character sheets and 2 full sets of the game.
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slashlizard wrote:
I am constantly introducing other players to desirable games in a couple of gaming groups. I am experiencing no problem with a few character sheets and 2 full sets of the game.
so, it sounds like 2 "full sets" is the way to go?
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Mark Cresswell
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This is going to get a whole lot harder to manage when later adventure packs require you to remove basic banes and boons from the game altogether.
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mark...that's exactly what i'm afraid of...this will be like risk:legacy; you pretty much need to play with same people each/every game (and decide right from the start), or you're going to need spread-sheets to keep track of all the diff cards/combos/decks/characters...

and that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with that; that's just the game and as long as you know this going in i'm sure you'll have a blast playing...it's only a problem for someone like me who always has a diff number to people to play with (and diff groups)...
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Tony Cotterill
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A solution you may want to consider is having a 'Party Sheet' which logs which characters are in that party and which cards have been removed from that party's Adventure journey.
When you adventure your character joins a party and when a group gets together to play they agree which party (if you have more than one) is adventuring.
If your current character is allocated to a different party then you can't access him/her and must create a new one to join the new party.
An unallocated character can join any party but once committed stays with that group.
It's like multiple realities or campaigns running concurrently.
As players availabilities dictate whether they play or not, characters within a party will pop in and out and obviously some will get ahead of others. In this case it may be necessary for more experienced characters to replay earlier scenarios so that the stragglers can get their tick box(es). In such cases they will get no end of scenario award (cos they've already had it) but they do get to play the game and probably find new cards and modify their deck.
Alternatively, a party could even choose to press on ahead with the higher level characters' next objective, but this would be risky and if they win, would give low level characters a tick some way ahead of their personal timeline (but they'd get a higher level award in advance).

How you manage it has got to be your own groups preference, of course.
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Dean L
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John_VW wrote:
the groups def would not be on the same adventure path...


There's only one out at the moment though, and mixing the intro adventure with the stuff in the first pack is fine regardless. I'd wager that actually you'd be okay with stuff from pack 2 mixed in when playing pack 1, and so on.

Of course, the easy answer seems to be to just go at the pace of the slowest group? So you stop playing solo once you reach the point of having to start a new adventure pack, until your other groups are ready for it too. Overall progress will be slower, but you'll get the same amount of play eventually.
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John Van Wagoner
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I might have to "cut-back" my expectations; maybe I should plan on only playing solo and a 2nd "adventure" with my wife (and drop the 4 player plans)...this way i'll only have 2 sets of character sheets/cards/etc. to track...

in reality the 4 player game would probably be played the least (just too many other great games to play, that they already know), and then focus on playing solo (with a 2 player game as a 2nd option)...
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Byron Rocher
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Yes John, that is probably the simplest and wisest choice. As I have had to ignore the results and card draws of some games as they were more of a demo and the likelihood of that combination of players playing together again was extremely unlikely.
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