Skolo
Netherlands
R`dam
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Guys

question. And I need official answer quoted or something.

Situation is as follows

Leoric is placed not next to the dragon but 1 square above, so he is NOT ADJACENT to the dragon. - N10 (he fat moved 1 up)

He is using his skill ability


to target square containing Stone.

Does he need to spend surge to omit Shadow ability from the dragon?
Remember that this hit is Leoric attacking and having blast effect from the space containing Shadow Dragon.

thanks for the explanations
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The text for the Shadow ability is:

Quote:
Shadow: A hero adjacent to this
monster that declares an attack must
spend 1 {surge icon} or the attack is considered
a miss.


By RAW, the hero that declared the attack was not adjacent to the Shadow Dragon and therefore does not need to spend a surge. This is true for any Area Affect attack. As long as the hero is not adjacent to the dragon, he does not have to spend the surge. And this is true of any attack adjacent to the dragon, regardless if it's the dragon being hit. If Leoric was adjacent to the dragon but attacked a goblin, he'd still have to spend a surge.

Thematically, I pictured it as the "shadows" of the dragon obscuring and distracting the attacker, regardless of whom he was attacking. If the hero moved away, then the shadows no longer distracted and so he didn't have to spend a surge. It's not the shadows protecting the dragon, it's the shadows disrupting the attacker.

As a side note, had Leoric not moved, would he have to have spent TWO surges? (One for each Shadow Dragon he was adjacent to) I kind of think so...

-shnar
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darren Nakamura
United States
Columbus
Mississippi
flag msg tools
http://www.destructoid.com/author.phtml?a=1364
badge
Darren@destructoid.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
shnar wrote:
As a side note, had Leoric not moved, would he have to have spent TWO surges? (One for each Shadow Dragon he was adjacent to) I kind of think so...


No. This has been answered in some FAQ. Shadow does not stack.

As for the rest of the analysis, I completely agree. Leoric is not adjacent to the Shadow Dragons, therefore he does not have to spend a Surge to overcome Shadow.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Skolo
Netherlands
R`dam
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
what about these words of Justin. What is he referring to saying attacking through a Summoned Stone?

sorry, not native English so you guys will help me to understand better.

"Since a Summoned Stone is treated as an obstacle and not a hero or monster figure, no abilities applying to heroes or monsters may be used. Thus, it wouldn't be affected by Shadow. However, any ability that allows you to attack through a Summoned Stone, if it's adjacent to a Shadow Dragon, is subject to the Shadow ability (since the hero is the one performing the attack).

The Reanimate is treated as a hero figure, so it would be subject to Shadow.

Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games"
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Mills
United States
Iowa City
Iowa
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
skolo wrote:
what about these words of Justin. What is he referring to saying attacking through a Summoned Stone?

sorry, not native English so you guys will help me to understand better.

"Since a Summoned Stone is treated as an obstacle and not a hero or monster figure, no abilities applying to heroes or monsters may be used. Thus, it wouldn't be affected by Shadow. However, any ability that allows you to attack through a Summoned Stone, if it's adjacent to a Shadow Dragon, is subject to the Shadow ability (since the hero is the one performing the attack).

The Reanimate is treated as a hero figure, so it would be subject to Shadow.

Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games"


He's saying that you aren't affected by Shadow when you use Earthen Anguish if you aren't adjacent to the Dragon.

On the other hand, if you are using a skill that lets you attack *through* the Stone, as if you were performing the attack, then you are affected by Shadow.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
T France
United States
Oakland
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
skolo wrote:
what about these words of Justin. What is he referring to saying attacking through a Summoned Stone?

sorry, not native English so you guys will help me to understand better.

"Since a Summoned Stone is treated as an obstacle and not a hero or monster figure, no abilities applying to heroes or monsters may be used. Thus, it wouldn't be affected by Shadow. However, any ability that allows you to attack through a Summoned Stone, if it's adjacent to a Shadow Dragon, is subject to the Shadow ability (since the hero is the one performing the attack).

The Reanimate is treated as a hero figure, so it would be subject to Shadow.

Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games"


He's not attacking the Shadow Dragons. He is attacking the space containing the Summoning Stone. Still doesn't need a Surge...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darren Nakamura
United States
Columbus
Mississippi
flag msg tools
http://www.destructoid.com/author.phtml?a=1364
badge
Darren@destructoid.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My intuition is that that answer has a skill like Terracall in mind, where it is the Summoned Stone itself that is performing the attack, rather than the Geomancer performing the attack and targeting the Summoned Stone (as in Earthen Anguish). You may want to send the question directly to FFG, though, because the way that's worded, it's unclear whether Cataclysm and Molten Fury fall under the first case or the second.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Skolo
Netherlands
R`dam
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ok guys, thank you very much

I was indeed thinking of a Terracall, where you "attack through a Stone"
So, my assumption was correct
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tomasz Virco
Poland
Wrocław
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
manydills wrote:
skolo wrote:
what about these words of Justin. What is he referring to saying attacking through a Summoned Stone?

sorry, not native English so you guys will help me to understand better.

"Since a Summoned Stone is treated as an obstacle and not a hero or monster figure, no abilities applying to heroes or monsters may be used. Thus, it wouldn't be affected by Shadow. However, any ability that allows you to attack through a Summoned Stone, if it's adjacent to a Shadow Dragon, is subject to the Shadow ability (since the hero is the one performing the attack).


The Reanimate is treated as a hero figure, so it would be subject to Shadow.

Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games"


He's saying that you aren't affected by Shadow when you use Earthen Anguish if you aren't adjacent to the Dragon.

On the other hand, if you are using a skill that lets you attack *through* the Stone, as if you were performing the attack, then you are affected by Shadow.


Question then:

On all these cards you have information perform an attack
which of these is "trough" by your opinion?


In my opinion:

In all three first cards Hero is performing an attack and by "it's adjacent" we have in mind the stone not the Geomancer.
you = geomancer
it's = stone


So by this interpretation I would say that only Terracall is not subdue to shadow ability because the stone is performing attack (and stone is not a figure but an obstacle) and for the all rest 3 cards they should be affected if only stone is near the dragon, because Geomancer is performing an attack from the space where stone is located.

Here are cards:




again stress is on a person/object performing attack:
quote:
"
However, any ability that allows you to attack through a Summoned Stone, if it's adjacent to a Shadow Dragon, is subject to the Shadow ability (since the hero is the one performing the attack)."






 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Earthen Anguish is exempt as well. With that one, you are not attacking through a Stone, you're attacking the space the stone is in.

-shnar
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tomasz Virco
Poland
Wrocław
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
shnar wrote:
Earthen Anguish is exempt as well. With that one, you are not attacking through a Stone, you're attacking the space the stone is in.

-shnar



What would happen here?

Mage is blasting F3 with dice roll:

roll 1custom6{iid:1311394;iid:1311395;iid:1311396;iid:1311397;iid:1311398;iid:1311399}+1custom6{iid:1311411;iid:1311412;iid:1311413;iid:1311414;iid:1311415;iid:1311416} -> ( iid:1311398) + ( iid:1311411) -> (
)(
) [+]



Is shadow dragon affected?



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
  • [+]
  • 437409. virco
  • 1custom6{iid:1311394;iid:1311395;iid:1311396;iid:1311397;iid:1311398;iid:1311399}+1custom6{iid:1311411;iid:1311412;iid:1311413;iid:1311414;iid:1311415;iid:1311416} =
  • ( iid:1311398) + ( iid:1311411) =
  • ( iid:1311398)( iid:1311411)
  • roll
  • Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:36 pm
  • [+]
  • 437410. virco
  • 1custom6{iid:1311394;iid:1311395;iid:1311396;iid:1311397;iid:1311398;iid:1311399}+1custom6{iid:1311411;iid:1311412;iid:1311413;iid:1311414;iid:1311415;iid:1311416} =
  • ( iid:1311395) + ( iid:1311416) =
  • ( iid:1311395)( iid:1311416)
  • roll
  • Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:37 pm
Damien M
United States
Salt Lake City
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
virco wrote:

Is shadow dragon affected?


The attack misses because you are next to the shadow dragon and you did not roll a surge. From that position and no other information, you will miss regardless of what square or monster you are attacking.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
With Earthen Anguish, you are not drawing LOS from the space of the Stone, you are attacking the space the Stone is in, so the attacker is the Geomancer. If the Geomancer is adjacent to a Shadow Dragon, the Shadow effect affects him. If the Stone is next to the Shadow Dragon but the Geomancer is not, then there are no ill effects.

-shnar
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tomasz Virco
Poland
Wrocław
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Well,
and this is the answer I can agree with now



Quote:

Hey Tomasz,


Hmmm... I believe I may have misspoke in that email. I know what it is I meant, but either typos or a case of "the dumb" assailed me, I cannot recall. I think I meant to say he and him instead of it.


The positioning of the familiar (when being attacked through) is irrelevant to the Shadow ability, unless the familiar itself (if treated as a hero) is the one performing the attack. However, if the Geomancer is the one performing the attack while he himself is adjacent to the shadow dragon, the attack is subject to Shadow, no matter its origin point.


Molten Fury, Earthen Anguish, and Cataclysm all follow this pattern. The hero is the one performing the attack (either measuring from or targeting the space containing the Summoned Stone).


Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
jkemppainen@fantasyflightgames.com


.. however the outcome is that my dragons where severly damaged

On the other hand.. and for other games
I love to play Geomancer
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rafal Areinu
Poland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Good idea for a team:
Geomancer(probably Quellen): 3 familiars at once
Necromancer Challara: 2 familiars at once
Beastmaster: 1 familiar
Vyrah the Falconer: 1 familiar

11 hero figures on the board at once Though I wish they made some healer with familiars.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
virco wrote:
Well,
and this is the answer I can agree with now



Quote:

Hey Tomasz,


Hmmm... I believe I may have misspoke in that email. I know what it is I meant, but either typos or a case of "the dumb" assailed me, I cannot recall. I think I meant to say he and him instead of it.


The positioning of the familiar (when being attacked through) is irrelevant to the Shadow ability, unless the familiar itself (if treated as a hero) is the one performing the attack. However, if the Geomancer is the one performing the attack while he himself is adjacent to the shadow dragon, the attack is subject to Shadow, no matter its origin point.


Molten Fury, Earthen Anguish, and Cataclysm all follow this pattern. The hero is the one performing the attack (either measuring from or targeting the space containing the Summoned Stone).


Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
jkemppainen@fantasyflightgames.com


.. however the outcome is that my dragons where severly damaged

On the other hand.. and for other games
I love to play Geomancer

And this is why you have to take emailed 'support' answers with a grain of salt, even when from the original designers. Emailed answers tend to be 'off the cuff' and not thorough review or playtesting, etc. Not to say they playtest all the other answers, but emailed answers are even worse. His original answer went against the rules as written, so until emailed responses are published in official FAQs, you kind of have to decide what to follow (RAW or Email)...

-shnar
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darren Nakamura
United States
Columbus
Mississippi
flag msg tools
http://www.destructoid.com/author.phtml?a=1364
badge
Darren@destructoid.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Areinu wrote:
Good idea for a team:
Geomancer(probably Quellen): 3 familiars at once
Necromancer Challara: 2 familiars at once
Beastmaster: 1 familiar
Vyrah the Falconer: 1 familiar

11 hero figures on the board at once Though I wish they made some healer with familiars.


Technically, Brightblaze and Skye are not figures, and neither are Summoned Stones. But I get what you're saying.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rafal Areinu
Poland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, I knew that when I was writing. But I couldn't find a word that would consist of figures, tokens and obstacles. Maybe pieces?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom H
Australia
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You got something against the perfectly good ordinary word "figstokles"? whistle
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Williams
Canada
Mississauga
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
Areinu wrote:
Yeah, I knew that when I was writing. But I couldn't find a word that would consist of figures, tokens and obstacles. Maybe pieces?


MEEPLES!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.