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Subject: COIN Series - what would you change? rss

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Nathan Lee
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Hi there,

This is a question directed at the designer of the COIN series, Volko Ruhnke, but anyone else may chime in with their thoughts, of course.

Just out of curiosity, Volko, now that you are playtesting your 4th COIN game, when you look back at Andean Abyss, is there anything you would change now? I mean, the games are becoming more and more sophisticated, with so many more interlocking parts. I was quite overwhelmed when I first got a chance to mess around with the Vassal Module of A Distant Plain! I don't know how I will keep track of all the markers when I sit down to play my first game on a physical board - so nice that the module takes care of that!

Again, I was just wondering if you knew then what you know now, what might you tweak in Andean?
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Adam Parker
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Great game design makes the complex simple, replayability maximum, and abstraction credible.
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thegreat2 wrote:
... the games are becoming more and more sophisticated, with so many more interlocking parts.

Nathan, what do you mean here?

Quote:
I don't know how I will keep track of all the markers when I sit down to play my first game on a physical board

Well there are 4 victory markers and you simply add what they measure and move them along the victory track.

There are 3 resource markers so ditto as each faction spends and receives.

There's an Aid and a Patronage marker, that you move too as they vary.

Quote:
... is there anything you would change now?

If it were me, in ADP I'd change just 5 things:

1. The color of the Support/Opposition markers as they can get lost in the browns of the map.

2. The non-player halos on the Event cards - they are pretty hard to see with my poor eyes.

3. 8 more cards in the deck to add some variance to the full scenario through pre-game card removal.

4. The rules - I've spoken to Volko about this and whilst the rules are complete, I believe they've been overly truncated so not to make the manual seem big. For me, in their curtness some meaning has been lost.

5. Some better preaf rooding.

Otherwise - by no means would I ever recommend that these games be simplified. Know your objectives, learn your operations and activities and play!
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Gordon J
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Well for sure I would consider ADP more sophisticated than AA. And so far with my play tests with FitL, it is more indepth as well than AA.
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Patrick Kairns
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Quote:
4. The rules - I've spoken to Volko about this and whilst the rules are complete, I believe they've been overly truncated so not to make the manual seem big. For me, in their curtness some meaning has been lost.


I agree here as well. With both AA and ADP I would have liked more verbose description on how to move Police, and for ADP a better explanation of the Surge mechanic. I was all over the place trying to understand how to get Coalition forces (Bases OR cubes) on/off the map, until I found it in the Playbook. It was staring me in the face, but sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees.

I would prefer a heftier Rules Book (+ 30% or so) and a thinner Playbook.

Both games are fabulous.

Thanks for your time.
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Volko Ruhnke
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Hi Nathan, thanks for asking!

I certainly would not add more doodads to AA -- what I wanted to model is in there.

My regrets are:

1) Not including a quick-play scenario. CL is shorter by design, and ADP and FL include short, medium, and long scenarios. I did a half-length scenario featured in C3i Nr26 that seemed to work well in the WBC tournament last month. Having it in the box would be even better.

2) Not including a "Deception Option" for those players who like a little mystery as to how close their opponents are to winning. We have provided that in subsequent volumes and it would work for AA just as well.

3) Arranging Non-Player Event Instructions by which symbol is first on the card rather than by which NP is playing the Event. Playtesters on CL and ADP recommended the latter arrangement and came up with the idea of cueing players (with those halos) that there is a special instruction, and I find that arrangement far easier to use than that in AA.

Regards! Volko
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Nathan Lee
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Adam Parker wrote:
[q="thegreat2"]... the games are becoming more and more sophisticated, with so many more interlocking parts.

Nathan, what do you mean here?

I mean 2 things :

1. Like anyone perfecting a skill or a piece of work (an artist, for example), looking back on previous work will often see things that they would change if they were creating the same thing now, as new ideas and concepts have likely presented themselves since.

2. Looking at the scope (ADP, where the victory conditions are so intertwined), subtlety (in CL, where every single cube and guerrilla matters), and sheer volume of pieces (the upcoming Fire in the Lake), I see the whole series moving to a new level.
 
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Peder Bergenwall
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Volko wrote:
Hi Nathan, thanks for asking!

I certainly would not add more doodads to AA -- what I wanted to model is in there.

My regrets are:

1) Not including a quick-play scenario. CL is shorter by design, and ADP and FL include short, medium, and long scenarios. I did a half-length scenario featured in C3i Nr26 that seemed to work well in the WBC tournament last month. Having it in the box would be even better.


Is there any chance of getting a download version or something of the sort for this? The C3i mag is about $35 (with shipping, as I can't buy it locally) to get a hold of for me. The Deception Option, is it possible to use the one in Cuba Libre and just "port it over" for AA?
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Volko Ruhnke
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Hi!

Quick play scenario: I believe that the WBC GM, Joel Tamburo, posted it somewhere for use in the tournament. If I can find a link, I will post that here....

Deception port to to AA: absolutely!

Volko
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Dan Cunningham
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Volko wrote:
Hi!

Quick play scenario: I believe that the WBC GM, Joel Tamburo, posted it somewhere for use in the tournament. If I can find a link, I will post that here....

Deception port to to AA: absolutely!

Volko


Found here:

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16836694/Andean%20Abyss%2...
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Volko Ruhnke
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Excellent, beat me to it, thanks!
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Peder Bergenwall
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Thank you both!
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