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Mush! Mush!: Snow Tails 2» Forums » General

Subject: Future availabilty rss

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Tony Cotterill
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Hi,
I've spent way too much on games lately so I'm going to have to give the pre-order a miss.
Will this be eventually available through normal FLGS or WWW shops, once the pre-order rush has been satisfied?

Then I can put it on my want list and get it somewhere down the line.
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Karl
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Nanki-Poo wrote:
Hi,
I've spent way too much on games lately so I'm going to have to give the pre-order a miss.
Will this be eventually available through normal FLGS or WWW shops, once the pre-order rush has been satisfied?


Probably, yes. But in very very limited quantities and for about twice the price. Fragor games are limited to one print run of about 1000 units and thats it. If they/you are lucky a major publisher picks it up and releases it (with slight modifications usually) as a regular product.
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John Van Wagoner
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Josephus wrote:
I doubt it.

The are around 200 to 250 copies left to pre-order and then thats the first print run done. There is a precedence for Fragor racing games to be picked up and reprinted so there is an outside chance. I have concerns that any difference between this release and the original Snow Tails may not be significant enough to warrant the second printing.

Fragor don't ask for payment until they are about to ship the game so you have around a month before you need to stump up the cash.

With pre-orders being live for over 3 weeks I'm surprised that there are still copies left. This game has had a luke warm reception and I can't see the pre-orders finishing soon.

Snow Tails is one of my favourite racing games as it has clever mechanics and the game length is spot on. Even with a few minor tweaks makes this a definite purchase for me. If the game play is as good as I expect I can't see many copies being available on the secondary market.
I haven't seen (or been able to find) a pre-order link since the game was announced?? where has this ever been avail??
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Yours Truly,
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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Nanki-Poo wrote:
Hi,
I've spent way too much on games lately so I'm going to have to give the pre-order a miss.
Will this be eventually available through normal FLGS or WWW shops, once the pre-order rush has been satisfied?

Then I can put it on my want list and get it somewhere down the line.


Their own print runs are one-and-done at Essen.
But, as mentioned above, some of their games do get picked up by other publishers as larger print runs and lower prices.

I believe 3 out of their 9 previous games were picked up for a broader release, so that would give you a 33% chance of picking this up down the road at a decent price. (Of course, if you're willing to pony-up the money, I'm sure you could get a second-hand Essen release at any time but for more $!).

The 3 that had a broader release were:
Shear Panic (Mayfair and a few others)
Snow Tails (Asmodee)
Savannah Tails (Kosmos)
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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This isn't quite right. Well, not completely right I should say.

While the first print run is one-and-done, a number of those copies will go to retailers - well, in North America at least. Can't tell you how this might work in the UK

I picked up Poseidon Kingdom this way, for about $120 Canadian, which is double the pre-order cost (not including shipping). Indeed Spellbound is still available in this manner.
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Montgomery Van
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While I imagine my wallet (and wife) will be screaming, I wanted to preorder this game so as to ensure I will get it. I missed out for a long time on the first Snow Tails and did not want to repeat that agony.

 
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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It should be mentioned that while you get your name on the list now, you don't pay until closer to ... well you don't pay until later. I don't have any idea when then collect payment.
 
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Cool User
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This announcement is being made in the public interest: due to financing issues, I will not be getting in on this pre-order.

Why do you care? Because I have a 100% track record for limited-edition pre-orders. That is, when it comes to "boutique" publishers (e.g., Fragor and R&D Games), if I buy a game sight unseen it will have either a lukewarm reception (Savannah Tails), or will later be picked up by another publisher at a higher availability/lower price (Snow Tails, Key Harvest).

If I have to pass for any reason, the game ends up being a smash hit but hard to find/afford (Poseidon's Kingdom and Key Market: First edition, I'm glaring at you!).

So now you have been warned!
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Montgomery Van
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Thank you, Cool User. I shall use your warning as justification when the wife glares at my preordering.

"But, but... Someone on the internet assures it will be a hit!"
"So they are buying it, then?"
"Er..."


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Curt Carpenter
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apotheos wrote:
While the first print run is one-and-done, a number of those copies will go to retailers - well, in North America at least.

Any game can be imported. And virtually all Essen games are, to some extent or other. The question is about whether the game will be distributed through standard retail channels. It sounds like the answer is no.
 
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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curtc wrote:
apotheos wrote:
While the first print run is one-and-done, a number of those copies will go to retailers - well, in North America at least.

Any game can be imported. And virtually all Essen games are, to some extent or other. The question is about whether the game will be distributed through standard retail channels. It sounds like the answer is no.


Well if you mean FLGS type retail no, but it will be available through standard online game stores for a while. That was my point.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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apotheos wrote:
curtc wrote:
apotheos wrote:
While the first print run is one-and-done, a number of those copies will go to retailers - well, in North America at least.

Any game can be imported. And virtually all Essen games are, to some extent or other. The question is about whether the game will be distributed through standard retail channels. It sounds like the answer is no.


Well if you mean FLGS type retail no, but it will be available through standard online game stores for a while. That was my point.

I don't know about the situation in Canada, but standard online shops in the US carry what's distributed, meaning also available to FLGS. Unless the shop (online of off) imports it themselves.
 
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Ben
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apotheos wrote:
curtc wrote:
Any game can be imported. And virtually all Essen games are, to some extent or other. The question is about whether the game will be distributed through standard retail channels. It sounds like the answer is no.


Well if you mean FLGS type retail no, but it will be available through standard online game stores for a while. That was my point.


Curt's point is that the game won't be readily available through North American online game stores in a manner comparable to other games - i.e., in loge quantities at or below MSRP. If the game is available through those channels at all, it will largely be at some price above MSRP. For many people in North America, it is cheaper to import the game directly from the publisher than pay for games imported by a third party. For many more people, both of those options is cost prohibitive, so the game is effectively unavailable to them.

By contrast, a game like Uwe Rosenberg's Caverna will be sold at Essen for $80, will be available initially through stores like Funagain for $110, but then will eventually be made available in larger quantities for something closer to $60 (though this may take months). I believe it is the latter type of availability that users are most interested in.
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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I think you guys are trying too hard to be right. But to be comprehensive:

The game will be available at select online retailers (who import it at their own expense, and typically charge a hefty markup on the preorder price) for a while after release. How long depends greatly on how good the game is - the last title, Spellbound, is still available. However, as is typical for the company, only a small volume (~1000) copies will ever be produced.

In some rare cases a mass-production reprint is arranged but this is never known in advance.
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Curt Carpenter
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apotheos wrote:
In some rare cases a mass-production reprint is arranged but this is never known in advance.

It often is known in advance. It's not necessarily a "reprint" per se, but sometimes simply an allocation for shipping to North America (or other parts of Europe or wherever) for distribution. Hence the question. This question comes up for nearly every game (that anyone cares about) released at each Essen. In fact this year I decided to make a list devoted to exactly that: Essen '13 -- Which games will and won't get US distribution?. I suspect the answers for Canada will be largely the same, but I'm not tracking that closely.
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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Curt does any of that really apply to Fragor, as a boutique publisher, and their single print run business model?

(I've only been following them for a few years so perhaps I misunderstand how they work)
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Curt Carpenter
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apotheos wrote:
Curt does any of that really apply to Fragor, as a boutique publisher, and their single print run business model?

If by "apply" you mean is the question relevant, then yes. If by "apply" you mean they will likely do a large international print run, then based on past experience I suspect no (with the exceptions of Snow Tails and Shear Panic). Which is what the OP was asking.

Also, keep in mind we're talking about Snow Tails 2, and Snow Tails did, in fact, get an international print run.
 
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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How is that "often known in advance" then? I think that's the only part relevant to the OPs desire to secure the product at a later date.
 
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Curt Carpenter
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apotheos wrote:
How is that "often known in advance" then? I think that's the only part relevant to the OPs desire to secure the product at a later date.

I don't understand your question. Often publishers will announce foreign distribution of their games (or lack of same).
 
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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I'm asking you to justify this statement:
curtc wrote:
apotheos wrote:
In some rare cases a mass-production reprint is arranged but this is never known in advance.

It often is known in advance.


I think the problem here Curt is you are saying things that are accurate for other publishers, but don't really apply to Fragor.
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Curt Carpenter
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apotheos wrote:
I'm asking you to justify this statement:
curtc wrote:
apotheos wrote:
In some rare cases a mass-production reprint is arranged but this is never known in advance.

It often is known in advance.


I think the problem here Curt is you are saying things that are accurate for other publishers, but don't really apply to Fragor.

*sigh* The question of whether there is any known distribution plans is valid for all games. What's often known in advance is whehter there will be distribution, not necessarily that there will be distribution. The answer for this game, as with most Fragor games, appears to be no.
 
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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curtc wrote:
apotheos wrote:
I'm asking you to justify this statement:
curtc wrote:
apotheos wrote:
In some rare cases a mass-production reprint is arranged but this is never known in advance.

It often is known in advance.


I think the problem here Curt is you are saying things that are accurate for other publishers, but don't really apply to Fragor.

*sigh* The question of whether there is any known distribution plans is valid for all games. What's often known in advance is whehter there will be distribution, not necessarily that there will be distribution. The answer for this game, as with most Fragor games, appears to be no.


None of which applies to Fragor, as they sell all 1000 copies they make directly.

Sorry to aggravate, but I just can't understand what you are trying to bring to the table here.
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Curt Carpenter
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apotheos wrote:
curtc wrote:
apotheos wrote:
I'm asking you to justify this statement:
curtc wrote:
apotheos wrote:
In some rare cases a mass-production reprint is arranged but this is never known in advance.

It often is known in advance.

I think the problem here Curt is you are saying things that are accurate for other publishers, but don't really apply to Fragor.

*sigh* The question of whether there is any known distribution plans is valid for all games. What's often known in advance is whehter there will be distribution, not necessarily that there will be distribution. The answer for this game, as with most Fragor games, appears to be no.

None of which applies to Fragor, as they sell all 1000 copies they make directly.

The question applies to all games, including Fragor games. It was, in fact, asked here.
apotheos wrote:
Sorry to aggravate, but I just can't understand what you are trying to bring to the table here.

No worries. I'm just trying to clarify that what most people consider normal game stores do no import games, and often it is known in advance whether a game will receive wide distribution or not.
 
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
I believe 3 out of their 9 previous games were picked up for a broader release, so that would give you a 33% chance of picking this up down the road at a decent price.


I'd say the odds of this particular game are significantly higher as it's a direct sequel to the most popular one of the most popular titles Fragor has released to date.

Given that, I'd be shocked if Asmodee didn't pick up Snow Tails 2 as a stand alone or upgrade/expansion offering.
 
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Fraser Lamont
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NuMystic wrote:
the most popular and widely distributed title Fragor has released to date.


Just as a point of interest, Shear Panic is by far our best selling game. Wood for sheep? sheep
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