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Subject: When Can I Rez Jackson Howard? rss

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John Choong
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I recently had a debate with a friend of mine on the use of Jackson Howard. I already had Jackson Howard installed on a remote server and my friend, on his turn, ran to attack my Archive. There is no Ice protecting my Archive but before he accessed the cards in the Archive, I wanted to rez Jackson Howard in order to bring my agenda back in hand (which I had to trash them after using Accelerated Beta Test).

He said that it was not possible and argued that for Jackson Howard's ability to be activated, I need to rez early on before he gain access to my Archive. As far as I know, I still have a window of opportunity to act as stated in 4.3 in the timing sequence. So who is right? Would appreciate if the fellow community can clarify on this matter. Thanks.



 
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Andy Mills
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brighknight_216 wrote:
I recently had a debate with a friend of mine on the use of Jackson Howard. I already had Jackson Howard installed on a remote server and my friend, on his turn, ran to attack my Archive. There is no Ice protecting my Archive but before he accessed the cards in the Archive, I wanted to rez Jackson Howard in order to bring my agenda back in hand (which I had to trash them after using Accelerated Beta Test).

He said that it was not possible and argued that for Jackson Howard's ability to be activated, I need to rez early on before he gain access to my Archive. As far as I know, I still have a window of opportunity to act as stated in 4.3 in the timing sequence. So who is right? Would appreciate if the fellow community can clarify on this matter. Thanks.


You're right for exactly the reason you say.
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Alberto Wagner
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And that is why Jackson Howard is such an amazing card.

Also it gives you click: draw 2.
 
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Ony Moose
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The only timing window when you can't rez stuff is DURING an encounter with ice. All the other timing windows let you rez stuff.
 
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Dave Kudzma
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Sydtrack wrote:
And that is why Jackson Howard is such an amazing card.

Also it gives you click: draw 2.


On a related note, that's also what makes Thomas Haas so awesome:

 
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Sonny A.
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brighknight_216 wrote:
I wanted to rez Jackson Howard in order to bring my agenda back in hand


You're right about step 4.3 being the the "best" time to rez/use him. But the cards do not go into your hand. You shuffle them into your R&D (Deck).
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Justin Dugger

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Well, I'm pretty sure it's the outfit and loads of cash that make Thomas Haas Awesome

But it's the same game mechanic that makes Encryption Protocol and Dedicated Response Team useful, and many others.
 
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Doug Law
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locusshifter wrote:
Sydtrack wrote:
And that is why Jackson Howard is such an amazing card.

Also it gives you click: draw 2.


On a related note, that's also what makes Thomas Haas so awesome:



Just to be perfectly clear about the timing window of Thomas Haas, when a runner declares they are approaching an unrezzed piece of ice (assume it is the second piece in the server) you can rez him to take the money to rez the ice and they are locked into encountering it, they cannot simply see you rez Thomas and declare they are jacking out, right?

If I understand it correctly, there are actually two timing windows to rez him, that are normally elided during the run, but if done in the second window, the runner cannot jack out before encountering the ice.
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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dlaw008 wrote:
Just to be perfectly clear about the timing window of Thomas Haas, when a runner declares they are approaching an unrezzed piece of ice (assume it is the second piece in the server) you can rez him to take the money to rez the ice and they are locked into encountering it, they cannot simply see you rez Thomas and declare they are jacking out, right?


Correct. By the time you have the chance to rez Thomas Haas and the ICE, the Runner is committed to continue. You can also rez Thomas Haas when the Runner approaches rezzed ICE to power Traces or Corporate Troubleshooter. This is true even for the first ICE.

dlaw008 wrote:
If I understand it correctly, there are actually two timing windows to rez him, that are normally elided during the run, but if done in the second window, the runner cannot jack out before encountering the ice.


Incorrect. There are two timing windows to rez cards during a run: 2.3 and 4.3. The first is "Approached ICE can be rezzed" and the second is "the Runner continues the run [after having passed all ICE]".
 
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Doug Law
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Okay, I was thinking there was a window after they cleared the first ice when I could rez him, but they still could jack out. It makes it a lot easier than having to say, "So you encounter the next ice" and having him or her reply "But you can't rez it" and then repeating myself until I am sure we are in the correct window. That's how I had been doing it, lol.
 
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Ben Finkel
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dlaw008 wrote:
Okay, I was thinking there was a window after they cleared the first ice when I could rez him, but they still could jack out. It makes it a lot easier than having to say, "So you encounter the next ice" and having him or her reply "But you can't rez it" and then repeating myself until I am sure we are in the correct window. That's how I had been doing it, lol.


There is a window before the jack-out decision, as well as one afterwards. Check out steps 2.1 and 2.3 from Tuism's excellent Structure of a Run.
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Doug Law
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Got it. So if Jackson or Thomas is already rezzed I have to be careful about the timing window, but if I have to rez them to respond to the run, it is too late for the runner to jack out.
 
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Andy Mills
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dlaw008 wrote:
Got it. So if Jackson or Thomas is already rezzed I have to be careful about the timing window, but if I have to rez them to respond to the run, it is too late for the runner to jack out.


You have to be equally careful about the timing regardless of whether the card is rezzed or not. I don't really understand your comment here.
 
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Doug Law
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manydills wrote:
dlaw008 wrote:
Got it. So if Jackson or Thomas is already rezzed I have to be careful about the timing window, but if I have to rez them to respond to the run, it is too late for the runner to jack out.


You have to be equally careful about the timing regardless of whether the card is rezzed or not. I don't really understand your comment here.


Because if he is unrezzed, the only time I can rez him is in the second window, where the runner cannot jack out. On the other hand, if he is already rezzed, he could be used in either window.
 
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Andrew Scala
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For those people saying Thomas Haas is great econ, it actually loses you money. 1 card, 1 click, $1 to get it up and running, and you aren't doubling your money by advancing it, because the click that you used to advance it could have been used just taking a credit from the bank...

It's just an expensive bluff to get people to run a server for nothing, and a place to keep a little money to prevent a siphon. That's it...
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Doug Law
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Scala wrote:
For those people saying Thomas Haas is great econ, it actually loses you money. 1 card, 1 click, $1 to get it up and running, and you aren't doubling your money by advancing it, because the click that you used to advance it could have been used just taking a credit from the bank...

It's just an expensive bluff to get people to run a server for nothing, and a place to keep a little money to prevent a siphon. That's it...


Absolutely correct. As an econ card, he loses money to clicking for credits. He does serve as Siphon Protection and a potential trap (by giving you access to money the runner doesn't know you have). Is that awesome? I want it to be, but right now he hasn't found his niche yet. At the moment, it seems like most of the successful archetypes are betting running things other than Thomas Haas.

But he does have potential. Maybe in some kind of horizontal, trap/ asset shell game deck.
 
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Tim Meng
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dlaw008 wrote:

But he does have potential. Maybe in some kind of horizontal, trap/ asset shell game deck.


I use him in an NBN deck alongside Ghost Branch, Project Beale, and Simone Diego. I'm sure you can figure out what he does there.
 
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Aleksi Laitinen
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Azeltir wrote:
dlaw008 wrote:
Okay, I was thinking there was a window after they cleared the first ice when I could rez him, but they still could jack out. It makes it a lot easier than having to say, "So you encounter the next ice" and having him or her reply "But you can't rez it" and then repeating myself until I am sure we are in the correct window. That's how I had been doing it, lol.


There is a window before the jack-out decision, as well as one afterwards. Check out steps 2.1 and 2.3 from Tuism's excellent Structure of a Run.


The window before the jack out decision doesn't let you rez non-ICE cards, only activate paid abilities. You can rez stuff in the window after it, though. Not that you would ever want to rez stuff before the jack out decision...
 
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Owais Aziz
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Your friend is right.

Refer to 4.3 of timing structure rules. The Rez action symbol is AFTER the paid ability trigger. This means if JH is face down and the runner makes a run on an unprotected archive or on the unprotected & face down JH - then it is too late for the corp to use JH ability and it can be trashed paying 3 credits.
 
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Owais Aziz
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Again you have misread the rules.

If the runner has passed all ices and you are step 4.3 then it is too late for you to Rez Thomas Haas and also use it's ability to take 2 credits for each token. The runner can trash TH for 1 credit wasting all your advancements. You have to Rez Thomas Haas when the innermost ice is approached or if unprotected then TH must be rezzed before a run is announced.
 
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Jeremy Diachuk
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Ovaldo wrote:
Your friend is right.

Refer to 4.3 of timing structure rules. The Rez action symbol is AFTER the paid ability trigger. This means if JH is face down and the runner makes a run on an unprotected archive or on the unprotected & face down JH - then it is too late for the corp to use JH ability and it can be trashed paying 3 credits.


The order of the icons isn't important - you can do either/or in these windows.

And no, you can rez and use Thomas Haas after the Runner chooses to continue after passing the last piece of ice, and before that run is considered successful (and access occurs).
 
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Andy HB
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taggedjc wrote:
Ovaldo wrote:
Your friend is right.

Refer to 4.3 of timing structure rules. The Rez action symbol is AFTER the paid ability trigger. This means if JH is face down and the runner makes a run on an unprotected archive or on the unprotected & face down JH - then it is too late for the corp to use JH ability and it can be trashed paying 3 credits.


The order of the icons isn't important - you can do either/or in these windows.

And no, you can rez and use Thomas Haas after the Runner chooses to continue after passing the last piece of ice, and before that run is considered successful (and access occurs).


This is correct. Ovaldo you are confusing things lol.

4. Runner approaches attacked server
4.1. Paid abilities can be used.
4.2. Runner decides:
To jack out, go to 6
or to continue, go to 4.3
4.3. Paid abilities may be used, cards may be rezzed.
4.4. Run is successful. Trigger abilities if any.

So the runner commits to continuing at which point the corp can rez and then use Jacksons paid ability to pull the cards from archive. If the run was on an unprotected Jackson then the server no longer exists and the run is considered neither successful or unsuccessful. If it was a run on archives then there's probably less agendas in there than before
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Jeremy Espinosa
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You've got it right. Your friend and Ovaldo got it wrong when it comes to Jackson Howard. With Thomas Haas the one time you can't rez him when you might want to is when a Forged Activation Order is played. You don't have a paid ability window before that action must resolve.
 
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