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Subject: Well... It was cheap at least rss

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Paul DeStefano
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When I got Dungeon Roll, for the first few games, I thought "That's it?"

Then I began to see how to really manipulate the dice to push further into the dungeon using your character's abilities.

Then I played some more and thought "That's it?"

For a while I also thought the box was cool. Now I realize it's horrible for storage. If they really wanted the chest thing, the should have gone flat topped foot locker style.

I'm guessing it's supposed to fall somewhere between Zombie Dice and King Of Tokyo as a dice game. I don't think it reaches near the fun of either.

There are extraordinarily few non-obvious choices that matter in play.

Yes, there are choices. Should I press on?

You know what... I don't care if I press on.

There's always the wild swing of luck chance that I get killed on a real easy level.

Or not.

Gaining that one point... I've never seen a round and said "Man, that guy played real smart". You can play a round of Yahtzee and be real smart in your options, even though it's a dice game. Here... you just... kind of go...

Even Yahtzee has rough choices. Go for the hard to get high score or stay safe.

One of my biggest personal problems with Dungeon Roll is ... personal.

You roll your guys once.

Then the monsters pour in.

I really don't feel responsible for my guys. It was one roll.

It's a strange game where the heroes are so passive. Dice should be rolled. MY guys should be rolled.

But the mechanics of the game work that I choose who to send in to fight each team of beasts.

It really feels backwards... I feel so inactive. And then my choices seems so... If I'm going to survive or die this level, it has nothing to do with my actual choices to stay or go or use treasure.

The single point per level system is awful. Its just not worth the amount of effort to get the next point sometimes.

Sure, you can point out how spending that one point treasure potentially gains 3 points if I make it...

But I just don't care.

I'm completely detached from my guys. Even as an abstract, my only active bit is the one roll. 80% of my choices after that are obvious.

It's a dice rolling game.

Why don't I roll dice?

There's all these cool little characters and treasures and all sorts of things to make the rules too long for what it is and ring up too many edge cases. They seem oddly disconnected from the base mechanic. Possibly because that dude on the card isn't a die.

And the fact that every monster is the same is annoying. You have a ton of stupid treasures to add unnecessary complexity, yet the monsters and heroes are just colors. Slimes don't slow me or eat my weapons. Goblins don't come in greater numbers. It's colors and nothing more.

The game is never involving for me.

Is it a bad game?

It isn't a good game.

It exists. It's a game. It never makes my group cheer or whine or anything. It's a set of mechanical actions - mostly by the player who isn't playing that turn.

And the downtime is horrible. You sit and you watch other players go through their mechanical actions. And sit. And watch. There's nothing to do.

Playing with more than 3 players is boredom. There's never that clever play or amazing roll or incredible gamble. Each delve takes too long. It's a short game that feels drawn out.

Maybe it functions best as a solo game. But there are so many better solo games.

There's a lot of variants out there to fix some of the problems. But I'm not sure it's worth the effort.

So it sits on the shelf in an awkward box and I really have no desire to play it.
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Steve Dubya
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Your thoughts seem to mirror my own the times I've given this a shot.

The best part is that owing to how successful the KS was, I'm pretty sure I'll need to give it away vice try to sell it, as anyone that wanted it pretty much already has it.
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Paul DeStefano
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Steve Dubya wrote:
Your thoughts seem to mirror my own the times I've given this a shot.

The best part is that owing to how successful the KS was, I'm pretty sure I'll need to give it away vice try to sell it, as anyone that wanted it pretty much already has it.


Yeah, I've played with a few different people, and no one is compelled to play more.

I read all these reviews saying how cool it is and it fits a niche...

I don't get it, it's a complete whiff for us.
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Mathue Faulkner
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As a hopefully helpful critique, the layout of this review is kind of hard to read.

Edit:
It also sounds like you're not playing solo (since you consistently mention 'not rolling dice'). I'll play this with 2p, but it really is at its best as a solo dice game. I agree that it's kind of weird that you're not the one rolling the dice in a multiplayer game when it's your turn...

I don't generally like solo games, but somehow this one works for me. I prefer my multiplayer gamers heavier, but apparently I prefer my solo games on the lighter side...
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Paul DeStefano
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mfaulk80 wrote:
As a hopefully helpful critique, the layout of this review is kind of hard to read.


That's funny, since most people complain when there's no paragraph breaks.
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Mathue Faulkner
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Geosphere wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
As a hopefully helpful critique, the layout of this review is kind of hard to read.


That's funny, since most people complain when there's no paragraph breaks.

Yeah. No paragraph breaks would definitely be worse, but I find it easier to read when things are grouped into several smaller paragraphs.
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Jason
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That more or less sums up my thoughts on it as well. It's cute, well executed from a production stand point, there just seems to be close to zero decisions for the players to make.

Don't get me wrong, it's a clever idea, just needs more of something.
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Paul DeStefano
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Wired_Wolf wrote:
Don't get me wrong, it's a clever idea, just needs more of something.


Player involvement.
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Mike Ricotta
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Geosphere wrote:
Wired_Wolf wrote:
Don't get me wrong, it's a clever idea, just needs more of something.


Player involvement.


Fun, it is lacking fun
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M M
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Yah. I looked into it when it was on KS, thought about it, decided against, and after playing someone else's copy, am glad that I did.
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Martin Gallo
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I felt the same way as the OP until I shifted my perspective a bit. At first I was very excited about the game, then I played it a couple of times and found it sort of a 'meh' experience. Then I stepped back and realized I was putting too much expectation into it.

It turns out that the game is fun if viewed as a simple game that can be played while watching TV. It requires very little player involvement but enough to occupy a commercial break. The biggest shift I made was that the luck you are pushing is the monsters, not the party's!

So, backwards. But I enjoyed it.

As for the box, I really like it. Everything fits in the box with room to spare. I have lots of little nooks and crannies on my game shelves and I like those little eyes peering at me, daring me to stop those peculiar adventurers again.I also GMed a lot of Monsters! Monsters! back in the day.

This is not the end all and be all of strategy games. Hopefully nobody thought it might be when they purchased it. It is a great filler or time-killer game, though. I would play it now, but I have to go make lunch...
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Scott Everts
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I have to agree with Martin, it's a great filler game and great fun either solo or two player. Not as great with 3 or 4 since downtime for the other players can be an issue. But even with 4 everyone was engaged and rooting for the party.

I think many people expect way too much from this game. It's a super light dice game, not meant to be a heavy weight game. Grab a beer and roll some dice!
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Paul DeStefano
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ScottE wrote:
I think many people expect way too much from this game. It's a super light dice game, not meant to be a heavy weight game. Grab a beer and roll some dice!


I don't find it nearly as entertaining as Zombie Dice or King Of Tokyo. I was not expecting Netrunner. I was hoping it fell between the two.

It just fell.
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Jonathan Warren
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Geosphere wrote:
You roll your guys once.

Although I am enjoying the game at the moment (and have only played a handful of games so far), this was the one thing that stood out for me as odd - you roll the Party dice to form a party ONCE. There is no option to re-roll (although it was pointed out to me that the Mercenary allows you to re-roll any number of Party dice).
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Cornixt
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Scrolls allow you to reroll, and treasure that acts like scrolls.
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Paul DeStefano
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cornixt wrote:
Scrolls allow you to reroll, and treasure that acts like scrolls.


And extremely possible to get neither.
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Geosphere wrote:
cornixt wrote:
Scrolls allow you to reroll, and treasure that acts like scrolls.


And extremely possible to get neither.

It's "extremely possible" to get lots of different results.
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Eric Knauer
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JoffW wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
You roll your guys once.

Although I am enjoying the game at the moment (and have only played a handful of games so far), this was the one thing that stood out for me as odd - you roll the Party dice to form a party ONCE. There is no option to re-roll (although it was pointed out to me that the Mercenary allows you to re-roll any number of Party dice).


Yeah, with only one or two rolls, DR fails to produce the excitement I really like in my favorite press-your-luck dice fillers such as Vegas, Can't Stop, Roll Through the Ages, Sharp Shooters, etc. Finding the optimal way to allocate dice felt more like a chore than thrill.
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Jonathan Warren
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cornixt wrote:
Scrolls allow you to reroll, and treasure that acts like scrolls.

They do, but not before you begin your delve. When you do use a scroll, then you lose that die anyway (so even if you could use a scroll to re-roll your Party dice before you begin, you would be down to 6 members in your party).
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Mathue Faulkner
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JoffW wrote:
cornixt wrote:
Scrolls allow you to reroll, and treasure that acts like scrolls.

They do, but not before you begin your delve. When you do use a scroll, then you lose that die anyway (so even if you could use a scroll to re-roll your Party dice before you begin, you would be down to 6 members in your party).

I don't think it's very effective to roll them at the very beginning. It's best to use the scroll when you want to re-roll Dungeon AND Party dice, with the Dungeon Dice being a priority.
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Jonathan Warren
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mfaulk80 wrote:
JoffW wrote:
cornixt wrote:
Scrolls allow you to reroll, and treasure that acts like scrolls.

They do, but not before you begin your delve. When you do use a scroll, then you lose that die anyway (so even if you could use a scroll to re-roll your Party dice before you begin, you would be down to 6 members in your party).

I don't think it's very effective to roll them at the very beginning. It's best to use the scroll when you want to re-roll Dungeon AND Party dice, with the Dungeon Dice being a priority.

That's not what I'm saying. I also don't think it's effective to roll them at the very beginning. The scrolls are useful, but the scrolls were mentioned as a way to re-roll your Party dice. What I'm talking about is being able to have at least one re-roll to build your Party before the delve actually begins.

Couple the ability to allow one re-roll to build your team with this variant: Active Dungeon Lord, Buffed Scrolls & Thematic Potions - A Play Tested Variant to Increase Player Interacton and Number of Decisions per Game, and there may be a really good game with more meaningful decisions here.
 
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Rick Teverbaugh
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Just a note to say I really disagree with about every word of the review. It is very much fun solo or 2-player or 4-player with 2 copies of the game. If the game is presenting you with some important challenges then you probably aren't playing with any spirit of adventure and aren't taking enough chances to roll a really good score. Perhaps you should try playing with a house rule that I sometimes use that when you have the flee the dungeon, you get half of your experience points rounded down. It encourages people to take risks. Dungeon Roll was one of my best Kickstarter purchases ever. I got my $15 worth the first week it arrived and have played regularly since.
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JoffW wrote:
Couple the ability to allow one re-roll to build your team with this variant: Active Dungeon Lord, Buffed Scrolls & Thematic Potions - A Play Tested Variant to Increase Player Interacton and Number of Decisions per Game, and there may be a really good game with more meaningful decisions here.

I don't think that having the chance to reroll before the game will do much really. The early stages of the game are such that you can offload duplicates fairly easily (such as if you roll several wizards) on single monsters, so all a reroll would do is help you get more champions and maybe reduce the number of scrolls (if you want, I usually don't find scrolls to be as useful as other party dice). It would make the game slightly easier, but not any more exciting or fun. I can't comment on the quality of the variant, but it does address the biggest issues that people have with the game.

 
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The Mighty Greedo
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Mmmm... Dungeness Crab Roll... ::Drool::
 
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Mike Gingold
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Great review. Everyone I have shown the game to feels exactly the same way.

The best thing I can say about the game is that I liked the way that Tasty Minstrel handled the kickstarter, especially that they had Amazon do all the shipping for them. I wish more kickstarters would do that.
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