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Subject: Magnetocaloric Refrigerator questions rss

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Kyrill Melai
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Quote:
14.0A Magnetocaloric Refrigerator Radiator. This radiator also needs an “electric” generator, and as noted it can cool its own supports.


Quote:
17.0A Note: A support for the magnetocaloric radiator (14.2A) can be shared with a thruster but never modifies thrust or fuel economy.


It was my understanding that anything in the support chain of a thruster affects modified thurst and fuel consumption. Section 17.0A makes an exception that any supports of Magnetocaloric Refrigerator does not affect modified thrust and fuel consumption.

Section 17.0A suggests to me that if the support of the Magnetocaloric Refrigerator is shared with the thruster, the support still does not affect modified thrust and fuel consumption at all. Is this the correct interpretation of the rules?

How about the support of the electric generator. Will it affect modified thrust and fuel consumption? If so, under which condition will it affect modified thrust and fuel consumption?

Thank you for your support.
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Dom Rougier
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Answering purely from logic (from the simulationist point of view):

A radiator won't make the engine burn more efficiently or with any more power, therefore a rocket that doesn't also use a generator (e.g., Nerva with a Pebble Bed Fusion reactor) won't benefit from that generator's thrust triangle.

This would logically apply to the supports of this generator as well, although this has not been stated.

If these supports are shard (so, a Hall Effect thruster or other electric rocket) then the thrust triangle should be affected as normal.


This is absolutely not what it says in the rules. If you were applying the rules as written, then any generator in the same stack as this radiator would have no effect. This would not always be a penalty - it would presumably mean that the solar modifier was not in effect either.


Of the two interpretations, the first one makes the most sense to me.

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Kyle
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Domfluff wrote:
Answering purely from logic (from the simulationist point of view):

A radiator won't make the engine burn more efficiently or with any more power, therefore a rocket that doesn't also use a generator (e.g., Nerva with a Pebble Bed Fusion reactor) won't benefit from that generator's thrust triangle.

This would logically apply to the supports of this generator as well, although this has not been stated.

If these supports are shard (so, a Hall Effect thruster or other electric rocket) then the thrust triangle should be affected as normal.
The written rule isn't worded the best, but this makes the most sense to me too.

Logically, any powerplant directly connected to the thruster would still apply normally, whether it's a Generator by itself, a Reactor by itself, or a Generator+Reactor combo. When you add the Magnetocaloric (MCR) to provide cooling for the rocket, you can either:

A) Tap it into the thruster's powerplant. These are still connected directly to the thruster, so any and all modifiers still apply normally.
-OR-
B) Give the MCR an independent powerplant. These are only connected to the MCR, so they have no effect whatsoever on the thruster.
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Jeff Pratt
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Domfluff wrote:
Answering purely from logic (from the simulationist point of view):

A radiator won't make the engine burn more efficiently or with any more power, therefore a rocket that doesn't also use a generator (e.g., Nerva with a Pebble Bed Fusion reactor) won't benefit from that generator's thrust triangle.

This would logically apply to the supports of this generator as well, although this has not been stated.

If these supports are shard (so, a Hall Effect thruster or other electric rocket) then the thrust triangle should be affected as normal.


This is absolutely not what it says in the rules. If you were applying the rules as written, then any generator in the same stack as this radiator would have no effect. This would not always be a penalty - it would presumably mean that the solar modifier was not in effect either.


Of the two interpretations, the first one makes the most sense to me.



No wonder I can't figure out how to play this damn game.
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Kyrill Melai
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I will apply the interpretation that makes the most sense, that is:

Anything in the chain of support of the thruster applies its modifiers, except if exist in the chain soley behind the MCR.

Because it makes the most sense it will also be the easiest interpretation to explain.

Happy hunting those asteroids!
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Dom Rougier
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vladdswrath wrote:
No wonder I can't figure out how to play this damn game.


I understand, but it's worth the effort. There are many games out there, but only one that does what High Frontier does - it's really raised the bar in terms of speculative fiction, or space simulation in board gaming.

This particular example is actually pretty unusual, it applies as an exception to only one card, and then only in some situations where it would be invoked. This card does come from Colonisation, and I think it's fair to expect greater complexity, rules exceptions and playing time from an expansion like this.
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Phil Eklund
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NoDDs wrote:
I will apply the interpretation that makes the most sense, that is:

Anything in the chain of support of the thruster applies its modifiers, except if exist in the chain soley behind the MCR.

Because it makes the most sense it will also be the easiest interpretation to explain.

Happy hunting those asteroids!


OK, to cover this corner situation, I have modified the living rules for Colonization (the final sentence is added).

• Magnetocaloric Refrigerator Radiator. This radiator also needs an “electric” generator, and as noted it can cool its own supports. If these supports are used by the Magnetocaloric Refrigerator only and not by the thruster, they cannot be used to modify thrust.
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Reinhard Mueller
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NoDDs wrote:
Quote:
14.0A Magnetocaloric Refrigerator Radiator. This radiator also needs an “electric” generator, and as noted it can cool its own supports.



What exactly does "cool its own supports" mean. I would have thought that every radiator can cool any card including its own supports and I cannot find a rule which contradicts this. Or does it mean, the Magnetocaloric Refrigerator Radiator can cool its supports for free (so its three therms are still available for other cards when cooling its own supports)?
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Dom Rougier
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etagimbo wrote:
What exactly does "cool its own supports" mean. I would have thought that every radiator can cool any card including its own supports and I cannot find a rule which contradicts this.


You're correct. It's notable in this case because this radiator uniquely requires a generator to function, which can create rocket configurations that are more unusual.
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