Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
22 Posts

Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game» Forums » General

Subject: Extremely close calls rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Lando
msg tools
Have people yhad extremly close calls while playing? This one happened to my ftriend last night after I successfully ioned him straigth at the board edge the turn before. This was the position of his Falcon after a 1 hard right turn.



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Cordeiro
United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So, what was the ruling on this one?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This has happened to me, and I let my opponent keep playing, figuring that this isn't an exact game and figures get bumped around a lot here and there by tiny amounts, etc. This is within the 'margin of error'. Was a friendly game, and I'd allow it in a tournament (though not sure if the 'ref' would).

-shnar
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Wilder

Daly City
California
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That's definitely off, although I would also allow my opponent to keep playing. (On the other hand, I think most opponents in a competitive setting would decline the mercy.)

The other night on VASSAL, we had two ships so close that we had to zoom in to 250% to see that there was a pixel of black between.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Woodworth
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
shnar wrote:
This is within the 'margin of error'.


I'd agree. Technically it's off the table and should be removed from play, pg 17 says
Quote:
if a ship executes a maneuver that causes any part of its base to go outside the play area...
and in the rules the words any part is bold.

But I agree with Shnar, that I'd let someone keep the ship in play because it's likely it did get bumped at one point or another.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jeff Wilder wrote:
The other night on VASSAL, we had two ships so close that we had to zoom in to 250% to see that there was a pixel of black between.

In Vassal I'd be less forgiving since there are no 'bumpings' and it's pretty dang precise, but in table top there's all sorts of bumping so I'm pretty forgiving.

-shnar
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Kudzma
United States
Millsboro
Delaware
flag msg tools
designer
People are...
badge
SPOCKED!!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've had ships flying so close they literally were edge to edge, but I've never had one that close on the edge of the board.

I think I'd rule that one as OUT. Bumping or not, flying close to the edge should have a price, or at least the fear of it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Woehlke
msg tools
mb
I had an opponent have this happen to him but he was just inside, not just outside. It changed the game because on the turn prior we are all so sure the Falcon was going to go off the board it affected our next maneuver.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Wilder

Daly City
California
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
shnar wrote:
In Vassal I'd be less forgiving since there are no 'bumpings' and it's pretty dang precise, but in table top there's all sorts of bumping so I'm pretty forgiving.

Sure, but arguably a bump is just as likely to be in one's favor -- i.e., keeping a ship in bounds -- as not. Therefore, fairly, the consistent thing to do is to play with the game-state as it currently exists.

Down the "could be" path lies quantum physics madness.

I would allow my opponent to keep playing not because of any possible once-and-future bumps, but just because it's somewhat less satisfying to win on something like that. (But at a competitive level, as I said above, most players will likely respond with, "No, it's off. I appreciate the offer, though. It's not like you didn't have to ion me twice to force that outcome.")
5 
 Thumb up
0.30
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Cordeiro
United States
Cumberland
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In a friendly match, just give them the benefit of the doubt. If that was my Falcon, and my opponent called it out, I wouldn't disagree with them, but I'd think twice about playing against that person in the future, because they value winning over good sportsmanship.

If it's a tournament or league, with prizes/awards on the line, I'm probably going to recommend to my opponent that we just call the TO over and get an impartial ruling before the situation escalates or becomes awkward.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Woodworth
United States
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
cordeiro wrote:
because they value winning over good sportsmanship.


Playing by the rules isn't good sportsmanship???
6 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert M.
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
cordeiro wrote:
In a friendly match, just give them the benefit of the doubt. If that was my Falcon, and my opponent called it out, I wouldn't disagree with them, but I'd think twice about playing against that person in the future, because they value winning over good sportsmanship.

If it's a tournament or league, with prizes/awards on the line, I'm probably going to recommend to my opponent that we just call the TO over and get an impartial ruling before the situation escalates or becomes awkward.

"Fly casual."

To me, the first way to resolve this is just to say "Wow, that's really close!" and continue playing. Both players have a vested interest in the outcome of the ruling, so neither can be impartial; in a friendly game it's not interesting to remove half of your opponent's list from the board on a technicality, so give your opponent the benefit of the doubt and just keep going.

The second appropriate response is to say "Wow, that's really close! Do you mind if we ask the TO to make the call?" Then the impartial judge makes the call, and you both accept it with grace and continue playing (or not, if that was the last ship).
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Creed Buhallin
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
cordeiro wrote:
In a friendly match, just give them the benefit of the doubt. If that was my Falcon, and my opponent called it out, I wouldn't disagree with them, but I'd think twice about playing against that person in the future, because they value winning over good sportsmanship.

Not sure that trying to shame your opponent into letting you cheat really qualifies as good sportsmanship.

IMHO, If it's off, it's off. I lost a handily won game at GenCon because I flew Krassis off the board by not much more than that. I shrugged and pulled the ship. If I land on an asteroid I take the lumps for it, and play on.

If we decide that, as Robert says, it's more enjoyable to nudge it back in and continue the game, rather than playing out an almost certain loss to start another one, fine. But your opponent expecting you to honor your mistakes or their good gameplay is not bad sportsmanship.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lando
msg tools
This was a game in preperation for a tournament. I saw what was coming and his one ion token on the ship and used it as a learning experience outside of a tournament. He now won't make the mistake of flying into a corner with an ion token.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Creed Buhallin
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
nimdabew wrote:
This was a game in preperation for a tournament. I saw what was coming and his one ion token on the ship and used it as a learning experience outside of a tournament. He now won't make the mistake of flying into a corner with an ion token.

Amusingly, this is the opposite of how I lose Krassis at GenCon. I had one ion, so turned away from his Y-wings because I didn't want to risk being ionized while facing to the edge. Misjudged the turn, and couldn't pull out of the corner.

Important lesson on when it would have been better to eat the collision with the asteroid.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Neil, the Tusken Tactician
England
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Even in our friendlies, that would be off as far as I'm concerned. I'd be very sympathetic but I would expect the same back. I'm obviously a complete git.
Especially in a game in preparation for a tournament, I would never have let this one go through. As you say, your opponent won't make that mistake again.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric B.
United States
East Lansing
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I can't tell you the number of times I've chosen a sub-optimal maneuver because I was being cautious and conservative and didn't want to risk a really close brush with an asteroid or the board edge. So, I went for less aggressive moves to be mindful of the edge.


If someone plays more recklessly and aggressively and assumes that they deserve a little leeway with the board edge and asteroid overlaps, then they're going to have a big advantage over players who don't plan being entitled to that sort of leeway.


But yea, in a friendly game I'm sure almost all of us would just keep playing it out if the game was still interesting... though it's worth noting that that Falcon went off the board due to the OP's strategic usage of an Ion Cannon (which is different than someone just overshooting the edge with an aggressive or careless maneuver).
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert M.
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
Buhallin wrote:
IMHO, If it's off, it's off...

If we decide that, as Robert says, it's more enjoyable to nudge it back in and continue the game, rather than playing out an almost certain loss to start another one, fine. But your opponent expecting you to honor your mistakes or their good gameplay is not bad sportsmanship.

I didn't mention it, but maybe I should have--if it's your ship, to me good sportsmanship still means to give your opponent the benefit of the doubt, even in a friendly match. Which means offering to pull the ship off the table, or telling your opponent that it's too close for you to make an honest decision, and you'll respect whatever call he or she makes.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
MILLINGTON
Tennessee
flag msg tools
mbmb
If any part is off the board, it's out of the game and is considered destroyed. I don't worry about it in friendly games, but for competitive play, it matters.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Woehlke
msg tools
mb
cordeiro wrote:
In a friendly match, just give them the benefit of the doubt. If that was my Falcon, and my opponent called it out, I wouldn't disagree with them, but I'd think twice about playing against that person in the future, because they value winning over good sportsmanship.


And that's just silly. If my strategy was to ionize the Falcon off the board and this was the end result I'd totally declare it that my strategy was correct.

To me the polite thing to do is obey the rules. If you lorded it over me that I asked you to follow the rules I'd wonder who really is the "good sport."
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jed Lin
Taiwan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
In my play, I would like to let it live, it's like the warning sign appeared above the screen in racing game, and until it is half of the base out, then it is done.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.