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Subject: [Deck] NBN - FA/Midseasons rss

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Joshua Imobersteg
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Hey all! I've been toying around with Making News (already liking my TWIY deck). However I just can't seem to focus the list in a way, I'd like.

Currently using a typical agenda setup, though I'm not sure if I want 2 Corporate Wars or 2 Character Assassinations.

Astro and Beale can be pushed through quickly as can anything else once SanSan is up and running (especially if a scored astro is in play).

Snare is there as deck and hand defense with Howard Jackson able to recycle them back in if needed. The rest of the assets I'm not sure of. I don't feel like I have enough revenue, though Cad and Pop-up help a ton. I'm not a huge fan of Melange due to the low trash value, but I'm unsure of Marked Accounts v. Private Contracts.

In terms of ICE, I feel like I have too much in the way of ETR and not enough in the way of ice that just whittles down the runner resources and punishes them. I was actually tempted to have things like Neural Katana or Chum in there, but couldn't find the influence.

For operations, I figured having a midseasons and psycho in there would be fun just to punish the runner when he/she is low on cash and maybe squeek a Beale through as a 5/3.

However, I don't feel like I'm making efficient use of NBN's tag punishment. I'd really like a closed accounts or two and maybe a free lance.

Thoughts?


SanSan is a given, though Bernice would be an entertaining addition.


So....any thoughts on how to make this more focused and make better use of the tools available?


Total Cards: (49)

Agenda: (11)
AstroScript Pilot Program (Core) x3
Project Beale (Future Proof) x3
Character Assassination (Opening Moves) x1
Breaking News (Core) x2
Corporate War (Future Proof) x2

Asset: (8)
Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) x3
Snare! (Core) x3 ■■
Marked Accounts (Cyber Exodus) x2

ICE: (17)
Tollbooth (Core) x1
Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus) x3
Enigma (Core) x2
Chimera (Cyber Exodus) x2
Ice Wall (Core) x2 ■
Data Raven (Core) x2
Flare (Future Proof) x1
Wall of Static (Core) x1
Bastion (Creation and Control) x1
Caduceus (What Lies Ahead) x2 ■■

Operation: (10)
Hedge Fund (Core) x3
Midseason Replacements (Future Proof) x2
Psychographics (Core) x2
Green Level Clearance (A Study in Static) x3 ■

Upgrade: (3)
SanSan City Grid (Core) x3

Total Agenda Points: 20

Influence Values Totals -
Haas-Bioroid: 3
Jinteki: 6
NBN: 40
The Weyland Consortium: 6
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William Frank
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I run a deck similar to this (as people here may well know, since I've been tweaking "The Primal Forces of Nature" since Project Beale got spoiled), and on the Agenda question, I side with Character Assassination. Mostly because I find that I don't need the Corporate War economic boost. (That said, I do have one CW in the deck to get me to the necessary agenda points.)

I use an Asset-based economy, running high-trash-cost drip economy in naked servers. (By game's end I usually have at least one each of PAD Campaign and Marked Accounts, and there's usually a Private Contracts in Archives.) So that underlies my thoughts, which are as follows:

Ice is always a tricky issue in this deck. I might change my composition if I were you. Yours feels weak. More stopping--Flare to me seems like a money sink with insufficient gains, I might recommend TMI instead. Stopping power is good. Consider Archer, you have Breaking News to feed it. (If you keep that.)

I don't like Freelancer. If you have the economic advantage, which you will need anyway, you can afford to blow up resources the old-fashioned way. (Or the new-fashioned way if you're using Character Assassination.)

I do have a Closed Accounts, but now with Jackson Howard I see no need for more than one. Recurring that kind of trick is a nice little two fingers to the Runner.

That's about it.
 
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Beyer
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I've become increasingly fond of Marked Accounts. It's expensive enough to trash that the runner will often leave it in the open. Of course I usually play Encryption protocols in the same deck so the effect is compound. Bank jobs are gonna give you a bad time though...
 
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Alex Bradley
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I run a very similar deck.

I think closed accounts is a key part of any NBN deck, it gives you a decent defense against siphoners and with so many ways to tag you have many opportunities to drop it on the runner.

I don't know how I feel about 3x SanSan, right now I only have 1 core set IRL so my NBN deck only has 1x SanSan, which gives me the room for two more NBN cards (hey look, 2x closed accounts!). If I had infinite cards I'd probably run 2x SanSan, so my recommendation would be to drop 1x SanSan and sneak a closed accounts there instead.

If you can find the influence, I really like having shadow in the deck as well. It almost pays for itself the first time you rez it (if you rez it at a time that the runner can not break) and gives a tag (trace at 3 + 2 NBN creds).

I ran corporate war in my Weyland deck and still found that I couldn't afford to rez it profitably most of the time so I'd think about those. If you find you can reliably score it for the +7, then keep it up! If not, I'd swap your 2x Corporate war for 1x PSF and 1x Character Assassination. The PSF can be your backup tag punishment and can really shine if they run into a snare. I am personally loving Character Assassination as Shaper decks that put multiple resources in play (Kati, Personal Workshop, >> PRO CONTACTS ) really suffer against it. Just be sure to ask the runner if they want to react everytime you advance a card up to 3 to really build up the paranoia.
 
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Joshua Imobersteg
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scifantasy wrote:
I run a deck similar to this (as people here may well know, since I've been tweaking "The Primal Forces of Nature" since Project Beale got spoiled), and on the Agenda question, I side with Character Assassination. Mostly because I find that I don't need the Corporate War economic boost. (That said, I do have one CW in the deck to get me to the necessary agenda points.)


I figured one Corporate War would be useful to have around, though I like the option of PSF as well, though I don't want to depend on it.

Quote:
I use an Asset-based economy, running high-trash-cost drip economy in naked servers. (By game's end I usually have at least one each of PAD Campaign and Marked Accounts, and there's usually a Private Contracts in Archives.) So that underlies my thoughts, which are as follows:


I've always been more a fan of using operation based economy. I see assets more as a way to get the runner to spend money rather than to make me money. Don't get me wrong, extra cash is nice, but it's just a bonus on top of keep the runner lower on cash.

Quote:
Ice is always a tricky issue in this deck. I might change my composition if I were you. Yours feels weak. More stopping--Flare to me seems like a money sink with insufficient gains, I might recommend TMI instead. Stopping power is good. Consider Archer, you have Breaking News to feed it. (If you keep that.)


I've found that as well. I do like Archer, but I don't like feeding it. BN is good for that, but BN also bumps up 3 scored two pointers into a quick and easy win, so I'm a bit loath to spend it in this deck.

The one-of for Flare I see as more a mini-archer with trades subroutines and credits in exchange to the agenda point and time/cash it take to score the said agenda.

It probably won't see a ton of use, but it's great to drop....especially against Atman if all you've been rezzing is lower strength ice.

TMI is just....inefficient. If I want to dump cash to avoid an account siphon, I can rez SanSan and actually make something back (potentially) and for the runner to make another run and spend credits to trash it.

Quote:
I don't like Freelancer. If you have the economic advantage, which you will need anyway, you can afford to blow up resources the old-fashioned way. (Or the new-fashioned way if you're using Character Assassination.)


It's more that if the runner is tagged with BN or something, I'll usually only have 1 click (if that) and usually want to trash two assets (Kati + PC/PW/etc). Just as a one-of or something to make trashing a bit more click efficient.

lopert wrote:

If you can find the influence, I really like having shadow in the deck as well. It almost pays for itself the first time you rez it (if you rez it at a time that the runner can not break) and gives a tag (trace at 3 + 2 NBN creds).


Caduceous does the same job a bit better IMO.


b a n j o wrote:
I don't like Snare! in this deck. The 6 influence could better spent elsewhere.


Snare is a good hand and R&D defense, especially with Howard Jackson. What would you rather spend the influence on and why?

I find the threat of snare and the resulting work compression to be extremely useful and aside from (maybe) some Bioroid ice (Eli or something) or Celebrity Git/Beanstalk/Successful Demonstration, I really don't feel the need for something else.
 
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Joshua Imobersteg
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After further playtesting
Okay, so I definitely see the point on snare after play testing more. I really like keeping it in for the work compression on the runner and it did net me a flat-line....but that was more due to the opponent being a new player.

Econ is lacking in this deck. Specifically burst econ, IMO. I've been thinking of cutting the snares for two Celebrity Gifts and maybe another Private Contracts or a Marked Accounts.

The ice has been doing alright except against Aggro crim. Any ideas for changes/improvements to the ice layout?

I've been happy every time I've landed the Mid-Seasons and Howard Jackson has been invaluable in cycling through cards and chucking stuff into archives for storage until they're needed later.

Thoughts on ways to improve the deck more?

 
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William Frank
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Three Snare!s are probably a stretch, yeah. I run two (and two Neural Katanas, they've actually served me very well) myself, but it all depends on what you have found.

I'm not sure Celebrity Gift is beneficial. Hell, even if you're insisting on operation economy, there are better options, I think. For asset, Private Contracts is solid burst econ, but you're sticking with operation, you said.

The problem is that you have a lot of one-ofs. The rule I heard quoted to me is this: if you need it in early game, 3 copies. If you want it at some point, 2 copies. If you have 1, you should have a way to tutor for it.

It's not quite universally true (sometimes, one-ofs work out nicely), but you seem to be working on a "lots of one-ofs and that way I'll be ready for anything" approach.
 
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Joshua Imobersteg
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Well the one-ofs for agendas are more that Character Assassination is meta dependent. I'm still debating what I'd like there. I think PSF and Character Assassination are the top choices over Corporate War after testing.

The other one-ofs on the ICE are the pricey ones (Flare v. Tollbooth) where I was checking the split. Might go back to two tollbooths. And Wall of Static/Bastion which is solely to be a safer deck vs. Atman. Really hasn't been much of a problem then.

Private contracts gets trashed fairly quickly even when defended. 3 clicks for a gain of 3 credits isn't what I'd call burst economy. I mean, the econ swing is nice (+3 to me and -5 to the runner), but I'd prefer to get the credit gain at that point over making the runner lose cash.

Marked Account and Pad (while costing the runner a lot) is slow.

Melange could be an option, but the trash cost makes defense annoying and it has to be in play for a turn before you can use it.

So between all of that, my options would be:

Melange
Successful Demo
Celebrity Gift
Beanstalks

I don't like the triffle gain from beanstalks. Successful Demo requires the runner to have failed a run the turn before. Celebrity Gift requires I have cards in my hand (which Jackson Howard does nicely).

Even clicking to 7 or 8 cards over your hand limit with Jackson. Playing Celebrity Gift, discarding down (maybe put agendas in RnD for storage), then cycling them back into the deck gets you a lot of cash, and messes with the runner a bit.

Also considering dropping down to two SanSans instead of three.
 
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William Frank
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nungunz wrote:
Private contracts gets trashed fairly quickly even when defended.


Really?

This is the part I'm noticing because that has not been my experience. Maybe it's my build, but I've never seen a runner willing to pay the 5 to trash Private Contracts. Except maybe Whizzard, but I knew that.
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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scifantasy wrote:
nungunz wrote:
Private contracts gets trashed fairly quickly even when defended.


Really?

This is the part I'm noticing because that has not been my experience. Maybe it's my build, but I've never seen a runner willing to pay the 5 to trash Private Contracts. Except maybe Whizzard, but I knew that.


Let's assume you forced them to rez the Private Contracts with Blackguard so you can maximize the economic damage of trashing it. Are you really going to spend a Click and 3 Credits *and* whatever it takes to break the ICE in order to deny the Corp 7 Credits? Trashing a Rezzed+Iced Private Contracts is a bit like trashing a Beanstalk with an Imp. It can be useful, but not very often. Honestly, I'd rather the Private Contracts sit there and take up the server slot.

PS - Can someone with a cardgamedb account tell the staff that the Trash Cost is 5?
 
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Justin
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scifantasy wrote:
nungunz wrote:
Private contracts gets trashed fairly quickly even when defended.

Really?

It's even more devastating if you wait until they only have 2c remaining, and then trash it. Huge confidence showcase, like switching hands in table tennis.
 
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William Frank
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etherial wrote:
Let's assume you forced them to rez the Private Contracts with Blackguard so you can maximize the economic damage of trashing it. Are you really going to spend a Click and 3 Credits *and* whatever it takes to break the ICE in order to deny the Corp 7 Credits? Trashing a Rezzed+Iced Private Contracts is a bit like trashing a Beanstalk with an Imp. It can be useful, but not very often. Honestly, I'd rather the Private Contracts sit there and take up the server slot.


I run PC with no ice at all, and still it's rarely trashed.
 
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Joshua Imobersteg
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Fair enough on a lot of the comments. It could just be the local meta that pretty much loves trashing everything on site. Aggro crims are more guilty of this than other factions.

Any suggestions on improving the deck, or what I can replace the snares with?
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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scifantasy wrote:
etherial wrote:
Let's assume you forced them to rez the Private Contracts with Blackguard so you can maximize the economic damage of trashing it. Are you really going to spend a Click and 3 Credits *and* whatever it takes to break the ICE in order to deny the Corp 7 Credits? Trashing a Rezzed+Iced Private Contracts is a bit like trashing a Beanstalk with an Imp. It can be useful, but not very often. Honestly, I'd rather the Private Contracts sit there and take up the server slot.


I run PC with no ice at all, and still it's rarely trashed.


I presume the usual scenario for a naked PC is rez-click-click-click. After that, the runner is spending 5 Credits and a Click to deny the Corp 4 Credits.
 
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William Frank
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etherial wrote:
I presume the usual scenario for a naked PC is rez-click-click-click. After that, the runner is spending 5 Credits and a Click to deny the Corp 4 Credits.


You're right about the scenario but wrong about the amount--8 credits remain on PC after rez-triple-click.
 
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scifantasy wrote:
etherial wrote:
I presume the usual scenario for a naked PC is rez-click-click-click. After that, the runner is spending 5 Credits and a Click to deny the Corp 4 Credits.


You're right about the scenario but wrong about the amount--8 credits remain on PC after rez-triple-click.


Corp can take 1 credit with a click without Private Contracts, so you're only depriving them of 4.
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Richard Roe
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I'm happy any time I see the corp play PC. It means I know they are going to keep clicking for credits. The total net is a extra 3 credits over having just clicked all those times. PC is just a trashable beanstalk.
 
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