Nathaniel GOUSSET
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... So what is the reason for a two month delay between release.

From an economical point of view it isn't sound : stockpiles and inventory cost money, and with the inflation the selling value will be less in one year than today.

From a commercial point of view it make no sense either : there is demand right now for the products... Who know If this demand will still be there in 6 months ? What is the point in not releasing all they have to their custom ers ?

Things being printed it is too late to playtest them, they have to be considered final, except for a few erratas or clarification, so that is not a reason either...

Frankly, just put them on sales and start working on the next path.Sitting on a huge stack of stuff your customers are craving for for no other reason than making them wait for it is bad taste and not commercialy sound.
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Gamer D

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Well without being in the company it's really hard to tell what the cost benefit analysis is for shipping it all at once versus shipping it one at a time. It could very well be that it's cheaper to ship the game in chunks rather than all at once, or maybe they need to gauge how many additional copies of each path need to be printed based on how many of the prior path sold? Or it could be that's it's easier to convince distributors or retailers to get one path at a time then to ask them to pick up all sic paths at once.

Obviously I don't know the specific reasons, all I'm saying is that they didn't just make the decision randomly. I guarantee the topic of whether or not to ship them simultaneously was discussed internally at length.
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Laura Blachek
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charlotte hall
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Well, if you buy the base game and character add on for around 60 bucks, paizo might be considering that most of us would not spend another 100 bucks for all the expansions as well. People might instead cherry pick the expansions, wheras releasing them seriallly with breaks between might mean a greater percentage of game owners would be buying all of them. Additionally, it means its harder for us to gauge how much money weve already spent on the game, about 20 bucks every month or two is small enough to be an impulse buy. Plus if they were all releasd at once, people would complain about them not being bundled, but if they were bundlesd, again, the cost increases above the impulse buy price piont.
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Greg
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I believe that most if not all companies that have expansion packs like this have a bunch of them done when the base sets are done, and then release them over time. Most of the time it's not really publicized like it was in this case though.

Perhaps all companies don't have their next 5 expansions printed already, but maybe some do. I imagine it saves money in printing because of the volume discount.

I would believe that companies that publish LCG's and the like also have the expansions done at the time of the base set (maybe not all printed, but otherwise done) so that they can playtest those expansions in with the base set or in this case, playtest through the cycle.

Why not release them all now? Well, the way people have already sped through the base set scenarios, I would imagine they would be done with the next 5 adventure packs in short order too. Then they (those still liking it and craving more) would be wanting more released. But since all the adventure packs were released, now there could be a year delay before anything else was released because that's the time that would take to design and test the new stuff.

So I believe that the release schedule of the adventure packs is to give Paizo time to design and test future releases (hopefully taking extra caution with clarity and editing), so that there won't be such a huge gap between the final adventure pack release and whatever's coming next.
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Scott Bender
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It's also good marketing. If they released all the expansions at once most players, especially the enthusiastic ones, would buy them all and finish the game within a month. Then buzz on the game would wane and sales of new units might drop off. (One could also argue that confusing rules and cards is good marketing. Forum activity is a key factor in "the Hotness" on BGG, after all.)
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Definitely a marketing thing. They get people in the habit of buying expansions regularly. They can sell subscriptions on their web site, with promo cards as the incentive for people to buy that way. They're spreading out the cost of buying the base set and all expansions, so people won't be put off by the huge cost up front.

They've been using this business model for 6 years for their RPG, and it's worked well for them. Now they're just expanding it into other games.

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Tristan Hall
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rougenoir wrote:
I have some recollection that film makers adopt a similar approach with, say, a trilogy. The main shooting is done in a single period, and the movies have staged release programmes, often extending over multiple years. Thus each release is a market event, and highly anticipated. A further benefit is that it tends to even out the revenue stream - if it works according to plan.


I'd say this was a very separate situation. Shooting is only one element of movie making - editing and post production can take months, sometimes years, especially with FX heavy films. I guarantee you PJ and co will be working hell for leather on The Hobbit Part 3 right up until the release date.
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Alexander Mercer
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I believe they are also trying to get people to subscribe to the game, which may then encourage people to purchase other stuff through their online shop and get it shipped out together.

Most of the Paizo lines have subscription options.
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rougenoir wrote:
ninjadorg wrote:
I'd say this was a very separate situation. Shooting is only one element of move making - editing and post production can take months, sometimes years, especially with FX heavy films. I guarantee you PJ and co will be working hell for leather on The Hobbit Part 3 right up until the release date.


Post production contributes to the length of the interval. But the release of the films at precise yearly intervals is still part of an event marketing strategy. If the ideal interval for marketing purposes was two years you would probably still find a director polishing up to the 11th hour.


That's all well and good, but these 'films' are actually done and sitting in the warehouse. From the sounds of it, they could do with some polishing, but it's way too late.

They did it from both a budget standpoint and to make sure the backs of all cards from the series would match (there are reports that this may have failed).

However, look at FFG and their LCG lines. They release one pack a month, with each being printed and shipped before the next one. Their packs at OLGS prices are ten bucks, while PACG are in the $13 range.

So no, I don't buy into the idea that they think people will be concerned that they are spending too much money on the game, this hasn't stopped FFG, and they know what they are doing.

FFG tends to release a 6 pack cycle, than a large expansion, followed by anither 6 pack cycle. I think Paizo doesn't have the resources for this type of schedule, so they are spreading things out so that every two months, something comes out, be it an expansion pack or the next big box.

The problem with this is that I agree with the idea that people may get bored of waiting and move on to the next thing. You strike while the iron is hot.

Adding to this, it costs money to have product sit in a warehouse. It costs even more money to make sure the environment these packs of cards are sitting in are climate controlled. You want smelly cards? Warped cards?

They should have set everything up for monthly releases like FFG does (and I think we can agree FFG knows what they are doing). I think they were concerned that if they released a product over a six month period, and than it was another six month period before we saw a new product, that people would complain. Which they would. But that only means they really like the product.

But if everything is done and sitting in the warehouse, I can not think of one good reason to stagger out the releaes over such a long period of time. No, I don't think it should all be released at once, but every two months is too long.

Jorune
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Jorune wrote:

But if everything is done and sitting in the warehouse, I can not think of one good reason to stagger out the releaes over such a long period of time. No, I don't think it should all be released at once, but every two months is too long.

You're overlooking the obvious: Subscriptions on their web site. This is a company that's been selling subscription material for 5+ years. It's their business model. That means they have to be ready to ship out new material in whatever subscription line at a regular interval. They're pretty good at judging how long it takes to get new material produced. In this case, they know they can do a base set and adventure path with 6 packs per year. So they toss the first pack in the base set and call it 6 shipments per year, then space them evenly every two months. That's their subscription.

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Fromper wrote:
Jorune wrote:

But if everything is done and sitting in the warehouse, I can not think of one good reason to stagger out the releaes over such a long period of time. No, I don't think it should all be released at once, but every two months is too long.

You're overlooking the obvious: Subscriptions on their web site. This is a company that's been selling subscription material for 5+ years. It's their business model. That means they have to be ready to ship out new material in whatever subscription line at a regular interval. They're pretty good at judging how long it takes to get new material produced. In this case, they know they can do a base set and adventure path with 6 packs per year. So they toss the first pack in the base set and call it 6 shipments per year, then space them evenly every two months. That's their subscription.



I'm a little confused here.

Are you saying that with the subscriptions, the idea is that EVERY 2 months they must be set up to mail something out? Meaning that when this cycle is up, 2 months later you don't renew your subscription, you will just get the next cycle's big box? That NO breaks are allowed. That next cycles box MUST be ready to go 2 months after the final adventure pack for Rise of the Runelords has been released?


Jorune
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Jorune wrote:
Fromper wrote:
Jorune wrote:

But if everything is done and sitting in the warehouse, I can not think of one good reason to stagger out the releaes over such a long period of time. No, I don't think it should all be released at once, but every two months is too long.

You're overlooking the obvious: Subscriptions on their web site. This is a company that's been selling subscription material for 5+ years. It's their business model. That means they have to be ready to ship out new material in whatever subscription line at a regular interval. They're pretty good at judging how long it takes to get new material produced. In this case, they know they can do a base set and adventure path with 6 packs per year. So they toss the first pack in the base set and call it 6 shipments per year, then space them evenly every two months. That's their subscription.



I'm a little confused here.

Are you saying that with the subscriptions, the idea is that EVERY 2 months they must be set up to mail something out? Meaning that when this cycle is up, 2 months later you don't renew your subscription, you will just get the next cycle's big box? That NO breaks are allowed. That next cycles box MUST be ready to go 2 months after the final adventure pack for Rise of the Runelords has been released?

Yes.

This is the business model they've been using for their RPG line since the beginning, as far as I know. Their RPG adventure paths are all 6 books each, with a new book published every month for at least 6 years now. That's why they're up to something like 14 RPG adventure paths published, the first of which was Rise of the Runelords, which was obviously the story inspiration for the first PACG adventure path.

From what I can tell, Paizo's current business plan is to put out new PACG material every two months from now until the company goes out of business, or this game stops selling well enough to continue. There will be no breaks in the schedule, and unlike most comic book publishers, these guys are actually good at making it happen. And I doubt if it's a coincidence that this means there will be a new base set in time for GenCon every year.

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